Today on the Book More Show we have a really great call for you. We’re talking with Jonathon Schultheiss who’s just finished his second book, Focused - The Financial Freedom Formula, and I can’t wait for you to hear about some of the amazing opportunities he’s created to get media attention.
Having already created a book, hyper-targeted at the group of people he really wants to work with, he created Focused to have a way to identify a broader group of people because he knows he can ‘sift and sort’ them later.
In just the last few weeks since completing his book, Jonathon has appeared on TV, spoken at NASDAQ and had his book featured on the Jumbotron in Time Square.
Having seen what he’s doing, I want to get him on the show to share his experience and give us some tips to do the same.
We talk a lot about directly engaging potential customers, and that is still the number one purpose of your book. But, just as with last weeks ‘long tail’ discussion, now you have your book created, there are some unique ways to make it work even harder, and get you access to potential customers that you may struggle to reach.
Jonathon has great energy, he’s a great cheerleader for the help he can provide, and he has some great tips for anyone looking to get more publicity and social proof.
Book Blueprint Scorecard
Don't forget, you can see how your book idea stacks up against the Book Blueprint by going to BookBlueprintScore.com and, if you want to be a guest on the show to plan your successful book, just head over to 90MinuteBooks.com/guest
Ready to get started: 90MinuteBooks.com/get-started
Be a Guest: 90MinuteBooks.com/guest
Your Book Blueprint Score: BookBlueprintScore.com
Titles Workshop: 90MinuteBooks.com/Workshops
Interview Shows: 90-Minute Books Author Interviews
Questions/Feedback: Send us an email
Extra Credit Listening: MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com
Transcript: Book More Show 078
Stuart: Hey everybody, welcome to The Book More Show and we've got a great show today, because we've one of our authors, always my favorite shows to do. Today's going to be no exception and really excited to share what Jonathon has been doing. So welcome, Jonathan Schultheiss.
Johnathon: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Stuart: Pleasure, pleasure. We'll get into this as the show goes on, but as I was just saying to Johnathon before we started recording, that it's always interesting for me to see obviously all the names coming through, as the books are created and get to speak to some people in the early stages, but nowhere near as many as I'd like to. So it's always super exciting to see the first time people come across the radar, is when I'm seeing TV stories and big billboards of people's books being created. So it's really nice to see.
So Johnathon, so let's start by giving everyone else a bit of a background. Do you want to share a bit of your story and what you guys do up there?
Johnathon: Yeah, so I'm a partner in a firm called Gate City Advisors. And Gate City Advisors is a financial advisory firm. We're an independent investment advisory group and we really have two core focuses, we have a wealth management division and then we have a corporate retirement plan division. So I'm the partner in charge of our corporate retirement plan division.
Stuart: Is that something that you started straight out of school or is it a career that kind of crept up on you?
Johnathon: Well, you know what's interesting, I actually started out in the insurance business and then went from the insurance business to the investment business. And as I started specializing and trying to figure out what my niche market is going to be, I started to gravitate towards corporate retirement plans. In probably the last 10 or 12 years, that's been exclusively my core focus is, just corporate retirement plans.
Stuart: It's always interesting, isn't it, how you kind of start the career in one path and then either through interest or experience or expertise, it really kind of blossoms into something that once you get that level of expertise and you've been in the game for a few years, you start seeing the code and it's almost like The Matrix as you're working in there, you kind of see what's happening below the surface. And that ability to share that with people is what comes out.
Johnathon: Absolutely. And I look at this as me growing as much as anything else too. And it's interesting, I love Dan Sullivan and he always says that as long as your future is brighter than your past, you're constantly growing.
And I feel like that's how I have been, even through starting out in the insurance business and even here, as I get ideas and I start to implement things. And you've seen some of the stuff that we've done, just with the book, it's like, my question is, is why not me? Why can't I do that? Why won't they have me on? Why can't I have my picture on the Jumbotron in Times Square? It's like it just keeps growing.
Stuart: It's such a fascinating paradigm shift. Before looking at any of these things, it's easy to imagine that that's something that happens to someone else or there must be some other big machinations going on in the background to make that work. But once you kind of break into that area, in even a small way and you've got any interest in it, it's really something that you can drill down to and amplify.
Johnathon: Oh, totally, totally. It's funny, you sit back and you see that other people have done it and you go, wow, that's got to be hard to do it. And then you start doing it and you start asking questions and you start calling people. And it's so easy that everybody wants to book you and it's like, wow, really? You really want to book me? That's pretty cool.
Stuart: The same psychological elements there, I guess in writing a book at all, it's still, even today, with all of the technology that makes it much more straightforward and much more accessible for people, it's still seen as such a thing to have something in print, bound within a book, with the cover and your name on the front. That psychological anchor that is there, that gives us the benefits when we're dealing with customers. Because it really starts the conversation on a good footing, that people thinking about creating it, they think it's a big thing, which you've proved, it's definitely accessible and something that anyone can do.
Johnathon: You know what's interesting is when I tell people this is my second book, it's almost like people go, wow, how in the world do you find time to write two books? You just go, I'm a busy guy.
Stuart: That's interesting, isn't it, because the credibility of one is kind of from zero to something quite significant? But two, three, four, it almost even amplifies more and more, because I think in people's minds, a lot of the time, they think about economies of scale and the second one being easier than the first one.
But a book is still something that has that ground level of expected effort that people don't drop below. So they think that two people have written two is almost more than twice the effort, rather than less than half the effort.
Johnathon: Oh, absolutely. I will say my second book was probably 10 times easier than my first. It's interesting, in everything like what you're saying is, it's about how do you create that kind of being a celebrity in your prospect's mind? And so they perceive people who write books as, oh, man, you've got to be better than me because I can't write a book and I haven't written a book and you've written two books? Wow. That's amazing. So it almost puts you in a kind of a higher status.
Stuart: Yeah, that's interesting, because we talk a lot, I think the last show that we were talking about some of the specifics, sorry, the one before last, we were talking about some of the specifics of getting things done and it not being very much the nuts and bolts of it not. So much focusing on the softer psychological side, but that benefit, it's not to necessarily go into this, particularly when we talk about lead generation, we're trying to tie it into quite specific campaigns.
So you wouldn't necessarily go into it just for the point of view of the status or the psychological elements that come along with it. But that as a benefit, if you could put 100 units into doing anything, 100 units into writing a book is way more, you get way more of the softer benefits that come along with it. And the opportunities that you wouldn't get putting those same 100 units into something else.
Someone was asking me the other day, how long, with people getting more familiar with self-publishing and platforms making it more accessible, how long is that still going to be the case? How long is it still going to have this psychological extra bank, the positioning piece that you were talking about?
But I really think that's going to carry on well beyond our lifetimes, because-
Johnathon: I absolutely think so. It's like anything else. It's like if everybody thought it was easy, they would go do everything, whatever, right? But it's that book thing. And I mean everybody has an idea, but nobody really takes the initiative to start it. And I think that's the problem. In our minds, we tell ourselves I'm too busy to do that. And really, it's just that procrastination that kind of creeps in and says, I'd rather be sitting here watching TV.
Stuart: It's almost our plausible deniability. There's enough social proof out there that people say, oh, it's too much hassle, therefore, it must be too much hassle and they don't need to worry about it anymore. I'd love to if I had the time. Without actually looking at what time it might cost.
But yeah, you can kind of sleep well at night, not having to think about it. I'm glad we're here smashing that myth and not giving people the excuse to sit back and watch the TV show.
Johnathon: I will say you guys made it super easy.
Stuart: Fantastic. Well, I mean that's definitely the aim and what we're trying to do to kind of bring it into more people's realm of possibility. There's so much, we take for granted a little bit the process side of things and the relatively straightforward way we have with working because we do it day in and day out. But the thing that really stands out to me, particularly being more involved towards the end of the process, rather than the beginning.
So Susan and Christy and Betsy are absolutely stellar kind of people can, here and helping them crystallize that into what turns into the pages. So seeing people's ideas end up on a page and knowing that that information is getting out to people in a way that it can really make a difference. That's one of the main kind of buzzes that I get from looking at them and seeing those completed ones, knowing that without that, the information wouldn't be getting into people's hands in quite the same way.
Johnathon: I think too and the other thing to think about is, in my mind, it's like just do it. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect. And that's what I told them through the process was like, I just want to get something, my first book, it's like, oh, I got to change this. I kept wanting to change it and it just drug out the process so long.
And this process with you guys, I was like, hey, just give me something. If I get it, then I know that I can keep adding to it. And that was really my intent was get something as quick as I can and then keep adding to it.
And one of the things that I learned from my first book is, not everybody's going to read it. You'll get a lot of people who will request it, just because you have a book. And I felt I learned a lot from my first book, but in the second book, I started doing all this pre-launch and pre-marketing and I saw the stuff that you saw.
But I've got probably 40 people who requested the book and it just hit Amazon last week. And I just got the PDF electronic version of it last week. And so it's all about marketing these things and to me, it's not about if somebody reads it. I would prefer them to hire me to implement these things.
Stuart: That's interesting thing, isn't it, particularly when we're looking, we talked so much at a show a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about slightly different types of books, legacy books, which were slightly built more around stories. And with those ones where the distribution is far less, it's more about getting a book to the family members, where reading is important.
But you hit the nail on the head, the job of work of the books that we're talking about, lead generation books and books to compel people to take the next step, it's much more that the book exists in the process. Very few people honestly end up reading, because they want the outcome, they want the solution that's promised by the title and if they could have that through osmosis, by just touching the book, then why would I want to read anything? I just want the solution and if the solution is the call to action on the back page, which is to take the first step or the next step in the process, then it's done its job.
And if there is some valuable information within it, that if they happen to thumb through, they get something called value. That's a benefit, but it's different in that it's not the book isn't the product, the outcome or the next step or what it does in the process is the product.
Stuart: That probably leads us on to your book specifically then. So do you want to give a quick overview to, I guess both the first book and the second book, just to give people a bit of context is where you went in the journey?
Johnathon: Yeah, so my first book was really written to HR managers and CFOs and benefits managers that are responsible for making decisions and basically, hiring me for managing their company's 401k program. And I started to get involved in all these book marketing groups and things like that.
And one of the things that I realized is with my first book, the audience was very small. It didn't have as wide of an appeal as I would like. And so I thought I really should do another book that is relevant for anybody. And it's interesting that the titles even, come kind of as a series, the name of my first book is called Distracted and the name of my second book is called Focused.
And so my second book was really written for individuals and so it's designed to give individuals a process that they can follow, to create financial freedom. So the subtitle is, The Financial Freedom Formula. And so I go through kind of a formula in the book and how people can create financial freedom.
And so it's really got a much broader appeal and so that's one of the things that I've been doing is, I've taken a lot of the stuff I learned and I tried to do with my first book is, I started applying that to the second book. And I've gotten so much more traction off of it, because it has such a wider audience.
Stuart: So that's interesting, let's dive into that a little bit more. Quite often, people will be fed up of hearing me talk about it, but we talk very much about that single target market and getting things dialed in to begin with. And what you're talking about slightly is going in the other direction and becoming more broad.
I think both of those are absolutely valid and the important thing is thinking about where it sits in the funnel and the campaign and how you intend to use it. So rather than one, rather than a book being an answer, a book is an answer to a question that sits within a funnel or campaign.
So the first one you were talking about, targeting this particular group of people, which I'm assuming is 100% focused and effective within that group, it's just that that pool is a pretty small pool of people. The second one, being so much more broadly applicable, but what I'm guessing is that the way that you use it in a funnel is going to be relatively specific. There'll be a broad background opportunity, but still using it in a specific context. It's just the subject is, of the thing itself, of the book itself is broader.
Johnathon: You're spot on and it's almost like I look at the first book, which is written for the HR manager and the benefits manager, but then what I do is I say, hey, I also have a book that is written for your employees. And this is a book for your employees and let me give you a copy of my book for your employees. You can read it, it can probably help you with some of your personal finances, but it can really help your employees. And here's my first book that's really written for you, on how to manage and how to create a better 401k program.
I totally look at those as kind of that series, one for that benefits manager and one for those employees. But then I got to thinking, great, this is for employees, but what if I used it to cast a wide enough net for individuals? And so my thought process is, how do I give the electronic version of the book away just to anybody, but try to lead that to a referral back to their HR manager, to have a conversation about their 401k program? Which is my ultimate goal anyway.
So I look at the second book, really like I said, that series that can help lead to the first book, which leads to me getting the 401k program and getting in the door at the company. So that's my whole thought process.
Stuart: That's fantastic and looking at those assets as they work together and back each other up, in both directions, if the HR manager is coming first, you've got something that can further that relationship and compel them to take the next step with you, because you're offering the employee book and going direct to the consumer.
But then having a funnel and a path that leads people, you're orchestrating that journey, you know where you want to end up. It's not that you just wrote the book to get out of them, provide the value. You've got a very specific path in mind that leads back to the corporate HR guys. So the way that they work together is such a fantastic example of that synergy.
Stuart: Interesting, the show that we recorded, I recorded with Betsy the other day, it's going to go up probably later today, we were talking about these smaller campaigns. So again, oftentimes people will come with like a primary reason for wanting to write the book, they've got a target group in mind, they kind of know what that first primary campaign is and how that will get to market.
But then over time, there's the opportunity to fill in those big major campaigns with lots of little tiny ones. So you've got the book created already, but what little campaigns can be, just fill in the gaps. Because you've got the book, they are already created, so if there's a cost effective way of doing small things to cast a wider net, you've just taken that to the next level.
Johnathon: Yeah, but here's the other thing too is, even though it's not my core focus to work with individuals, we also have a wealth management division. And if I can generate leads and feed those leads to the wealth management division, then my book is actually feeding the whole company.
So leads are going there and then I'm trying to convert those leads to referrals, back to get into their HR managers. So I'm working it at both angles and not only that, so I've taken the concepts from the book and I've started creating videos on each of the concepts.
Johnathon: And so my thought process is that when somebody requests a free download of the book, then my next question is going to be, hey, would you like the audio version of the book for $10 or would you like the video version of the book for $20 or would you like to have them both for free? And you get them both for free, if you refer me your HR manager.
So what that does is that generates a lead for wealth management and a referral for me to call on for 401k services.
Stuart: The funnel afterwards, so beyond the book elements, of the book score card, where we're looking at, okay, what to do now, once it's created, we talk there about the initial campaign, what happens when people raise their hand over the first seven, 20 to 30, 90 days, whatever that initial period is. And then what happens after that, as they go into what we typically call like the flagship broadcast element, where they've got out, they've come to the end of the normal funnel. They're not quite ready yet to raise their hand and do something. So then they just fall into like a regular contact session, contact sequence rather.
So for you guys, when people raise their hand, do you have an idea of a very specific follow-up sequence over the short period for those people who are immediately likely to raise their hand? Do you have that already dialed in?
Johnathon: So that's kind of a work in progress and that's where I'm looking at, it's almost like when you buy anything else in the funnel, you're interested in this and even Amazon, people who are interested in this were also interested in this and they also liked this.
So that's going to be my thought process and let's say they opt out of all of my offers and they just keep the book, then the other idea that I want to do is, I want to be able to market with little videos on YouTube and things like that. So maybe even promoting the YouTube channel, where we might take a concept from the book and do a quick little one minute financial focus or something like that and just talk about a tip from the book or talk about how we've helped somebody.
One of the things that I think is more important than anything and this comes from Dan Kennedy, he says it's more important how you market what you do than what you actually do. And so when I look at that and you think about all the traction that I've gained by TV interviews and different things like that is, I want to start doing more blog posts and more little videos and I think it would be great to say, hey, listen, I helped a client this week do this. And just a short little one-minute video on that.
And so what's happening is, everybody who's got the book will keep getting those emails that say, hey, here's how Johnathon's helped somebody else. So it'll be constantly trying to convert them to jump back into the fold to say, hey, I think I should probably have a review or maybe I should look at getting that free video series. Maybe I should refer my HR manager.
It's one of those things that we want to just constantly be dripping on them to see if we can't convert it.
Stuart: Yeah, I think that twin approach of we know how they're opting in, so we want to orchestrate a specific campaign. So the ones that are the hottest, the warmest, the most likely to do something over the next period, whatever that period is, here's a campaign of seven emails. It really orchestrates that journey and provides them with some more value and provides them with some more social proof and constantly presents people with the opportunity to take the next step.
And then having them drip out of the end of that, if they haven't raised their hand yet, into those more regular things, is the perfect combination of trying to capture or compel those people who are most likely to take action now, to do so. And if not, still keep in touch, because they're more likely than the general population to make that decision over the next 12 to 24 months and still be able to stay in front of them.
The ones you've got to be client based as well, the idea that you were talking about at the end of just referring back to the ways you've helped other people, that gives almost a limitless source of information. I talk about on the podcast, talk about Jim Hacking quite a lot, he's an immigration attorney that we work a lot with. And their model is, they, if I could to kind of define a path that everyone would take and follow without question, it would be almost what Jim's done. Because they're just great examples of so many things that we talk about.
And exactly that, they have a big YouTube channel, 300, 400 videos I think on there now, they're all pretty short, they come from the immigration questions that come into the office. So they've got a room set up that's just got the recording equipment in there, so they can jump in at any time to execute easily.
A question comes in, if it's interesting or that they haven't answered it before, they'll just quickly shoot a video, that goes up on the YouTube channel. The newsletter that they send out weekly, refers to some news stories and obviously there's no shortage of immigration based news stories at the moment. They'll refer back to a video, they'll refer back to a particular success story that's happened recently. And that reinforcing point, outside of the initial funnel.
So we've got several campaigns where people can opt into particular things for different types of visas or different types of immigration problems. So the follow-up sequence for that, specifically is five or six steps long, but then when they fall out at the back of that, they just go into the regular contact.
And I think for you guys, that's just as apparent or just as likely to be successful, because anyone that raises their hand has that immediate interest, even if they're not at the point of executing. But there's an immediate interest but then there's an ongoing opportunity for that conversation. Such a fantastic idea.
We're jumping around a little bit, I don't want to bury the lead too much. One of the main things I wanted to talk to you specifically about is what you've been able to do in the marketing side for the book or the audience you've been able to get in front of. And that is really talking about some of the TV stuff and the speaking opportunities and the billboards and all that type of thing.
Do you want to give people a bit of background as to what's been happening the last couple months on that front?
Johnathon: So just in the probably two months, I've probably had six TV interviews about my book. I've given a speech at the Nasdaq about my book and I actually had my book and my picture and a picture of the book featured on the Jumbotron in Times Square, the Nasdaq Jumbotron.
And a lot of that really began with my first book and that's what I was saying earlier is, I was joining a lot of these author groups and learning how to promote your book and that's when I thought, if I had a book that had a little bit more relevance to a wider audience, I wonder if I could do more of these things. And so with the book, the one thing that I started doing and I learned this, I went to a media training class.
And one of the things that was interesting is they taught us, they said, these producers who book guests on the morning news, these guys have air time to fill. So they're constantly looking for stories, for guests, for different people. And you hear that and you go, yeah, but why would they ever book me?
So I started calling those people and when I would say, hey, I'm an author and my book has not come out yet, but I want to promote it and it's about financial literacy and it's about this, all of a sudden, they have a lot of interest. When can you come? And the first time they said when can you come? I was like, really, are you serious?
Stuart: I can imagine some of those things that you anticipate, you said gone to the training, heard someone say that, it makes sense, I'm going to give it a try, but then when it actually works, you always want to say, no, sorry, maybe you misunderstand. I actually want to come on the TV. Yeah, that's fine.
Johnathon: You're talking to me?
And so I started booking shows and the funny thing is, this morning I was actually calling producers, because we're headed to go down to Myrtle Beach for my son to play in a baseball tournament next week and I thought while I'm there, I'm going to have some extra time. I wonder if I can book myself on the news there. I spent this morning calling producers trying to get booked at Myrtle Beach.
So it's funny and you just kind of have fun with it and once you start to have some success, it changes your mind. It goes back to how we kind of started this conversation, is you start going, wow, this is working. I'm starting to see traction.
And the interesting thing about my book is, I think I had pretty close to 40 requests for the book, even before the book came out. And so I remember going into you guys' process and talking to Betsy and she says normally we don't do the cover until the inside is done. And I said, yeah, I don't think you understand, I want to market this book before it's done. I want to start marketing this thing. I want to create interest before it's even available, so you guys let me kind of get out of order and you created my cover first.
And so I took that cover and that's what I started using for marketing. And when I created kind of a segment proposal for producers. And I would put you guys made this really cool JPEG picture of my book and a little thing across the front that said coming soon.
So I put that on my proposal and I started sending it out to TV producers and started to gain a lot of traction. And I would say, hey, this is my second book and this is what it's about and here's some industry awards that I've won and I'd love to be on your show. And so people started to book me.
And then the thing was, it's so much fun when you go and you actually get on the news and I've done some live shows and I've done some pre-recorded shows and man, I got to say, the live shows are always fun, as long as you have something funny to talk about or whatever else. So I just started sharing five tips from my book. I got five tips I want to share from my book, to either help you make money or save money in the new year and get your finances back on track. And so then I would just show up and share my tips.
Stuart: Let's break that down a little bit because the orchestration of what you're doing there, I absolutely love. And as people are listening to this, thinking about this is something that they might want to do, these tips you share and I think are going to be key for their success. And I don't know whether you hit the ground running and did this from the start, whether this is refined over time, but a couple of things you talked about was calling in to them, understanding that they've got airtime to fill, so you're actually helping them out. You're not begging them to be on the show, as it were.
Johnathon: That's totally the feeling I have when I call is like I'm here to help you fill some airtime and I've got some good stuff.
Stuart: The tips that you're sharing, the information you've got, their audience is going to be super grateful to hear about it.
So then after that, the follow-up that you've got with them is providing them with some background information and some assets, like the image, just to kind of reinforce the point you're talking about and give them something they can use on screen as well if they want to. You're giving them the buyer information and the background of all the context of what you've done.
And the thing that you're actually talking about, the five tips, you're conscious about what the medium, you're conscious about what the show is and it is a limited amount of time and the kind of listicle type approach of, here's quickly five things that it's easy for people to conceptualize. But it starts, the conversation starts the journey, providing that with them and sharing that in the show, it's just really making where you can imagine you calling up with all of that, as opposed to someone else calling up and just saying, oh, please, if you don't mind, I'd like to talk about something, but I'm not quite sure what.
Johnathon: The thing that I learned when I went to the media training class was they talked about, when you're booking yourself on the news, they talked about things that producers like, they like props, they like different things, they like things that are engaging and interactive for the host. And you don't want to be a boring talking head that gets on there and goes, hey, save your money for the future. Because then nobody cares, it's terrible.
So I actually had some stories and ideas in the book and I thought, how can I come up with props for these ideas? And so I actually have props for my ideas and different things, like one of my tips, I talk about saving money is I call it the eBay check. And so the eBay check is this and I'm a suit and tie, I'm a financial guy, I'm suit and tie every day and I really appreciate nice dress shoes. And if you wear nice dress shoes, you know they can be extremely expensive.
And so I have, probably one of my best deals ever, I bought a $200 pair of dress shoes on eBay for $25. And so I take those dress shoes and I say, hey, my first tip is the eBay check. And I hold up one of the shoes and I say this is a pair of shoes I bought on eBay, these are $200 shoes and I bought them for $25.
And it's so funny, because when you do that, the host goes, wow. I literally, you can go to my website, thefocusedbook.com and the as seen on TV and watch some of the stuff. One of the hosts, when I said that, he sits back in this chair and goes, wow, I got to hang around with you. It's interesting that you see that engagement. That's a tip.
I talk about saving money with Starbucks and I talk about buying a pack of Starbucks at the grocery store and so it's all about saving money tips and it's designed to be interactive with the host.
Stuart: And understanding that context, you're doing a lot of the job, work for them in a way that's not difficult for you to do. It's just taking a minute or two thinking about what the experience is and what the medium is and what the context is. And they're making it as effective as possible, both for them, so it's an easy decision for them and for you.
So you'll get more engagement with the audience and that they're more likely to take that next step and follow the suggestion to go to the website and learn more, which is expanding the knowledge of what you've already started to do. In the context of, people understand that this is a news segment, you've only got two minutes, they don't expect you to go into the nuts and bolts of all of the details, but it's just enough to take it to the next step, which I think-
Johnathon: You've got to keep it high level and you've got to keep it entertaining.
Stuart: Right. I think that's the one we talked about with the books themselves for people, because sometimes people want to come and they'll want 200 pages worth of stuff put into a book, which is just realistically not going to happen for most people. The amount of people that can actually write that much stuff in a way that is coherent and makes sense is a small minority of the population.
But also, you'd already identified that a fewer number of people, smaller number of people actually read the book, the 40 or so people who had opted into the book before it was even released, all of that is backing up what we say that it's, the title is the thing that engages people, because it's a subject they're interested in and they want to learn more. And really what they want to learn is the outcome that they want is the outcome. Rarely is there say, an academic or an interest exercise in just learning more knowledge, it's often they want the outcome. So small steps in a TV interview leads to slightly bigger steps in a book, leads to slightly bigger steps in the first action to do something, to achieve that.
I'll link to your website obviously from the show notes, so as we listen to this and head over to 90minutebooks.com/podcast and this is episode 78. So Jonathon's face is almost certainly going to be smiling out from the show art as well. So we'll make sure that you link across.
I've had the fortune of seeing the videos beforehand, that Johnathon sent across a couple of weeks ago or earlier, late last week, saw them there. And you've got one particular video that I saw most recently, which is all of the different news appearances, were brought together into one short YouTube video. And seeing them back to back like that and thinking about it from the perspective of the author, someone that's looking to get traction, the consistency and the message that you were able to deliver within those short windows, it really stands out as an effective way of continually delivering that same message and bringing people into a funnel, in the same way.
So was that orchestrated in the same way, was that the intention of really having this as a multiplier of the same thing?
Johnathon: Yes, for sure. And here's the thing, I mean each of those videos are probably four to five minutes. And so I wanted something that was short and the thing that you're talking about, where it's just a bunch of clips together, it's about two minutes altogether.
And the whole purpose of that is, if somebody runs across that on social media, they're going to be engaged and they're going to stop and they're going to watch it. And usually that post up above it will say, hey, get your free copy of Focus: The Financial Freedom Formula by coming to thefocusedbook.com. And so it's really meant to be a marketing tool for driving traffic back to Focus.
And right now, I'm getting a lot of traction organically on LinkedIn with that and my next step that I'm going to do is, I'm going to actually do a sponsored content, using that same thing. I might try to shorten it a little bit. I might try to keep it to right around one minute, so I got a lot to cut out of it. But then I want to start running it on Facebook and do sponsored ads on Facebook and do sponsored stuff on the Instagram and try to drive people to the book.
So once I kind of get my funnel set up and ready to go, then I'm going to take that little clip, like you're talking about and that's going to become my marketing and see what I can do on Facebook and Instagram. Because organically, I'm getting a good reach right now on LinkedIn.
Stuart: LinkedIn is always super interesting, I think, because it's typically as far as ads go, more expensive than the other platforms. Although I mean case-by-case, but across the board.
Johnathon: It usually is, but it's a little bit more targeted and if you think about my target audience is that CFO, HR manager and so I can actually specifically target everybody who has CFO or HR in their title. And to me, that's actually a little bit more valuable. I understand why it's more expensive.
Stuart: And the interesting thing there is tying those two things together, so if there is from a broader campaign perspective, highlighting the customer book, the Focus book to the audience of the people so I'm thinking about geographically targeting things, running Facebook Ads to people who are likely to be staff of organizations, that are in the geographic area for the consumer book.
And then a period of time afterwards, running the CFO book to the groups of the employers who are in the same area. So there's likely to be some crossover and name recognition and visibility, because it won't be the first time they're seeing it. They're seeing something that triggers in their mind that they've already seen a video in the past. Once you've got now multiple assets, that you can deploy together, to make a campaign that's more effective, that synergistic effect of it and being more effective than they would be just stand alones by themselves.
Johnathon: And not only that, but then you've got retargeting ads to, so if I run something on LinkedIn, where I can be a little bit more kind of that rifle approach and once they come to my website, then I can actually retarget them back on Facebook or whatever social media that they go to. Or even retarget them on Google.
So it's one of those things that goes, I think I can lead from this more narrowed focus on LinkedIn, once they hit my website. Then I can track them and retarget them anywhere they go on the internet. So that's kind of my goal too.
Stuart: I guess you can even bridge into the physical world, so you're dealing with, from the CFO's particularly, you're dealing with a known group of people, there are lists out there that you can get to who the individuals are, so it's not that you're just dealing with a broad target that you're trying to get as narrow as possible. But you can ante get names and email addresses and physical addresses.
So having a campaign that was more broadly pushing across social channels, so that there's likely to be some name recognition and then potentially, actually physically, sending the book to those people, because you know who they are, they're not invisible, it's just you don't know if they're interested. So physically sending it to them, but then having the call to action.
Johnathon: We do that with my first book, we actually pull a list of CFOs and people who are responsible for signing off on their 401k plan. And we're sending out 10 books every single week of my first book. And there's a letter that goes with that, that tries to drive them back to my website, not The Focused Book website, but We Fix 401ks website and try to get them to download other resources, like the Focus book and different things like that.
So we're really trying to target that and drive traffic that way and trying to convert things.
Stuart: That's fantastic and you mentioned in there, The Focused Book then forms part of the next steps for the first book. So again, another example of where they're working together not using The Focused Book as the top of the funnel lead capture in that particular funnel, but using it as a follow-up to compel people to take a next step.
Once you've created more than one or to a certain degree, even if you've just got the one book, so people started a little bit earlier, but maybe they're able to create other assets to go with the book. So you talked about shooting videos and walkthroughs of individual ideas that are held within the book, each one of those is an asset as well, that's smaller.
For someone who's only got one book, so can't refer to the other, there's always the possibility of using one of the videos that talks about one of the subjects as the top of the funnel cookie, the way to get people to raise their hand. And then have the book as the follow-up, rather than the other campaign, which would be the book as the cookie and then the videos as the follow-up.
As soon as you've got these assets created, to be able to mix and match them and use them in different ways to engage people in different ways. Such a fantastic opportunity.
Johnathon: And that's totally what we're doing is, I don't know what's the right way or the wrong way and we just keep doing more and tracking what's working. And we use Google Analytics a lot to track the traffic and stuff on our website. So I try to say, okay, we've sent out 10 books this week, did we get any more traffic on the website? Even if they didn't come and download something, did it create interest in them coming to my website?
And Google Analytics lets me go down to the city, so I can actually see what city somebody logged into my website from. And so I go we mailed 10 books to this area, did anybody from this area go on and look at my website?
So definitely, we're trying to track those things and we just keep testing and once we find the right way, you're right, we have all these different assets and we keep using them in different ways. And right now, I'm getting a lot more traffic from social media than I'm getting from mailing out the book. We look at those things and we're constantly trying to change the message to say, okay, once we find a message that resonates the most, then we'll double down on that message.
Stuart: Having a good assumption and hypothesis, but not being able to tell until you actually test, you mentioned that right at the start, the second book, the aim was to get something out there, which was definitely good enough to test the hypothesis. But then you've got the opportunity to develop and add to it and augment it and change it afterwards.
Exactly the same with the campaign. You can have some ideas, but you don't know which one is going to get traction. So by going broad and trying a few different things, then when you see the one that pops, that does get traction, then put some kind of wood behind the arrow and kind of double down on that.
Exactly the same with the content in the book, there are some great products out there that will allow you to invest 50,000 and create a big, heavy book that takes a lot of time. But just to do that blind, to put all of the eggs in that basket, I mean that's a big ask.
From our perspective at least, much better to have, for the same cost, you could have 20 good test ones. Not that I'd suggest anyone does 20, but you could have 20 good test ones and then find one or two that really get traction and kind of double down behind that. It's a such a fantastic way of dealing with it.
Stuart: I'm conscious of the time. I've just looked down at the clock and I think I say this on every show, but I was joking that we will kind of pencil in half an hour and go for 45 and then we should be good. So we're just going past 50 minutes I think.
Johnathon: I know, I feel like there's so much more we could talk about, but yeah.
Stuart: I tell you what, if you're up to it, I think we should definitely kind of reconvene in a couple of months and then check back in and see how it's going, because I'm super interested in what you guys are doing up there and I'm sure everyone that's listening is too.
In terms of, two things to finish off then, one, I'm going to twist your ear, if you had to give some advice to someone who's just getting towards the end of completing their book and wants to get some leverage outside of something that they perhaps thought of already, would one tip be to reach out to local TV channels or would it be trying out speaking events or if someone could only do one thing, what would you suggest they did?
Johnathon: I would say where I've gotten the most traction has been my TV appearances. And so I think if you're going to commit time to doing any one thing, that's probably the best. And you have speaking engagements, unless you've video that speech, you only get traction with the audience, where a lot of times, when you do these TV programs, they will actually give you the segment. And so you have it that you can run on your website and you can do these other things.
So I would say if you're going to focus on one thing, I would focus on the TV, because that's what's been, what's given us the most traction.
Johnathon: For sure.
Stuart: I'll be sure to link to the website, just with the examples of the shows that you've had, just so people can kind of get a feel for what you've been able to achieve across there.
And that leads to the second thing then, if people want to find out more about you guys in the book, where's the best place for them to visit?
Johnathon: If you want to find out more about the book and see the marketing stuff that we're doing, obviously, thefocusedbook.com is the place to come and you can see my as seen on TV stuff. I also have created another kind of a niche marketing website called we fix401ks.com. And so that's really where I try to drive people from my first book. So those two websites and then just our general website that kind of gives an overview on the whole firm is gatecityadvisors.com.
Sounds like we have a lot of websites, but it's interesting, it's all about how do we specifically market that individual niche? And that's where I like We Fix 401ks, because if you come to We Fix 401ks, you're there for one reason, to fix your 401k.
Stuart: Exactly. I mean it's like having multiple assets in the books. I mean there's an overhead of having multiple books, there is an overhead of having multiple websites, but that overhead is getting increasingly less and less over time and particularly once you've done the first one, you've got that familiarity, so the second one's always more straightforward to do.
And the specificity that it gives to the clients, the people who have expressed an interest in a subject, allowing them to follow that interest through and not be bombarded with other stuff or stuff that's less interesting. I completely agree, it's the campaign focused stuff, is the way to go.
Johnathon: Yeah, absolutely.
Stuart: I can't believe how quickly the time has gone. I'm definitely going to hold you to coming back on in a couple months and we'll check in.
Johnathon: Please do. I'd love to come back and I'd love to have some great results to report.
Stuart: I'm sure we will and I think everyone's going to be interested to see what comes of this.
Thanks everyone for listening, as always. Check out the show notes, I'm definitely going to put all the links that we've talked about and the links to the videos that we described over in the show notes. So that's 90minutebooks.com/podcast and this is episode 78.
Jonathan, again, just want to say thank you for your time, really excited to catch up again in the future and we'll catch you in the next one.
Johnathon: You got it. Thanks.