Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with Brannon Poe, Founder of Poe Group Advisors, a US and Canadian firm specializing in helping owners optimize, buy or sell accounting practices.

Brannon has authored three books with us; The Unplugged Vacation, Scaling Your Cloud Accounting Practice, and Preparing Your CPA Firm for Sale, and today we get to talk not only about his approach but also about how each of his books supports a different part of the conversation he has with potential clients.

This is a business with very long nurture times, and it's not unusual for it to take years for someone to become a client, so Brannon talks about the opportunities his books create to stay in touch with people and add value, no matter how the conversation goes.

This is a great call with someone who has mastered a book's potential to start a conversation, and it really highlights the many ways the assets he has in his books can be maximized.

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TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Bookmore show. It's Stuart Bell here, and today we've got a great guest, Brannon. Brannon, welcome to the podcast, thank you. Thank you, stuart, glad to be here, great to have you. I was saying in last week's show I talked to someone here that I've spoken to before, which is a little unusual. Usually I've spoken to people at least in a call or a quick on boarding call. Brannon, yours in a slightly different situation again, because I feel like I know you because we've got some mutual connections in the background. You're on your third book now, so as a name I've obviously seen it passing through the system a lot, but it's I feel like I know you more because we've got third party connections, both through Dean and another friend of ours, dave. So it's great to make a connection. For the sake of the audience who haven't yet had the introduction, tell us a bit more about what you guys do and a bit of your background.

Brannon: Yeah, I'm a CPA and I started my career with Xinjiang and quickly realized that Publix was not for me and I started selling CPA firms in the year 2003. So we've been on it for about 20 years and that's what we do. We sell firms in the US and in Canada, and in 2020, we launched a up, an online workshop called Accounting Practice Academy, and that's when we started our first book with you guys, and Academy has really helped. We help accountants who own a practice, help them do much better and get their hours down and get their profits up.

Stuart: And is that always with the intention of selling them Eventually, or are some people in the program just to exponentially grow what they've got?

Brannon: It's interesting. I've always been curious about you know, I've been coached myself and I'm a believer in business coaching and I had this sort of vision for launching a program for accountants many years ago, and it's very difficult to get a platform off the ground in person the things that the coach has done and some of these other networks. It's really pretty remarkable because it's hard to get people to travel and get that thing started, so a lot of times what you have to do is you start privately and then you can build it up once you have a following, and I just wanted to launch something that would help accountants. I felt like we had a lot of knowledge. We actually wrote our first book in 2010 and I wrote it old, hard way, the old fashion, and that was the first sort of where we put our knowledge into, and I never intended it to be a get ready for a sale program.

And then I got accused of that. Like when we launched it said you're doing this to feed your brokerage business and honestly that wasn't the intent, but that has been the effect. So it has been a good feeder because a lot of times people when they're thinking about selling, that's when they really think, okay, I need to get my business in shape for a sale. So we have all sorts of people in. We have people who are selling, we have younger people who just want to build a good foundation.

 Stuart: You mentioned, the people often have the thought of making some improvements or the catalyst for taking that step is an external trigger of thinking about selling, or I'm guessing that some people have had an external event that kind of wakes them up and snaps them out of it a little bit. Those two groups of people the younger guys who are just looking to exponentially grow but they're really in it, and the people who are thinking, okay, this is maybe I need to do something, ready to sell the get self, and very similar people to be coached. And there's suggestions that are being made because underlying gets the same things that need to happen whether you're looking to grow and stay in it or grow it to get out of it. I'm guessing the fundamentals are the same but the approach might be different.

Brannon: Yeah, Our program is very much about fundamentals and mindsets. Those are to be more universal and they apply to young people, older people, doesn't matter where you are, they're fundamentals.

Stuart: And.

Brannon: I think the only difference is like sometimes there's more energy and excitement in the younger crowd because they've never. Some of these mindsets are very new to them and for some of the more experienced CPAs that are going through the program they're reminders, and but they still need the reminder.

 Stuart: And I guess there must be a frustration to a certain degree, and the more experienced group have. This is something that I should have known years ago. That can be a frustration in that. Yeah.

Brannon: I've had a couple of people say the only thing I regret about taking this is that it didn't take it 10 years ago.

Stuart: Yeah, Is that old and out of. The best time to plant a tree was 100 years ago. The second best time is today and without a time machine, just crack on in today's of the day to yeah, exactly yeah. My wife years ago as a in between she's a teacher. So in between some jobs she was helping people with like home organizing, getting things squared away like an English Marie Curie type not Marie Curie, that was completely different Marie.

But she really did that for a short period of time and enjoyed the actual work of it. But what made it and immediately go back into teaching was she said that it was turned into only 10% of the fundamentals of organization and getting things sorted out and then 90% was marriage guidance. I'm just all the psychological elements of why people weren't doing the obvious steps. There's a slightly more professional environment so you're probably not doing so much marriage guidance but I imagine a lot of it is more around the mind. There's an animat of it which is definitely associated with the mindsets and the psychology and not necessarily with the knots and bolts or numbers of the CPA practice.

Brannon: We did a lot of studying when we're creating the, what we did a lot of studying about change, human change how do you create change in people? And that's an interesting like. That's a whole topic of its own. That's extremely interesting, and we all know our own. I think people have their own goals to changing, and so one of the things that we really focus on in the workshop is honing in on what those are for people. We call it FTIs failure to amend so we get people to become very aware of where they've had problems changing in the past and also aware of where they've succeeded. Okay, here's that. If I want to change, this has worked for me in the past. Maybe it's how you lost weight or how you started a next program, and those are the same things that apply to changing your business.

Stuart: It's interesting to see because my background is IT, project management and the very kind of should frame or was.

This is going back a few years now, but there was a very structured framework around the work that we did and a lot of that coming out of projects was the kind of post-mortem at the end of every projects to try and get that lessons learned, and it's definitely the case that as an exercise wasn't utilized as much as it could have been.

The theory around it is that every project going forward then looks at the lessons learned, not only to avoid problems but also pick up on best practices. But it's something that I don't think I've ever seen anyone else talk about outside of those management disciplines and the idea of taking that extra time to look at where those successes and failures were and think about taking that moment to think about the thinking of what was successful and what wasn't. That, I think, is a it's a difficult to sell in coaching programs to say that one of the main what a main thing that you're going to get out of this is the fact that it's a period of time away from the day to day just to think about the thinking of this. But the benefits of that. It's really quite an intangible it's. I don't know if you've experienced the same or you get that same feedback from your members.

Brannon: Yeah, we we've been a little bit surprised at how people have taken action. Like, we built this hoping and thinking that, okay, that this is going to work, because we did do a lot of individual things prior to building a program. That's a group model and it was. But we were blown away that people are taking action in such a big fashion and we thought that's going to be the hardest thing to have to do.

We can give all the great ideas and their business, because most of the people that come into our program are very busy. They're actually over scheduled and so it's very tempting for them just to fall back into their old habits, and so we were aware of that. Going in, it's like how do we keep people to make moves here? How do we get to make the change? Take all these great ideas and put them into action, and I feel like we built the right amount of accountability. Accountability is a big component of it and also with the awareness and making the idea simple and not over complicating things If it's complicated, people are just not gonna.

Stuart: Practical implication of understanding all of a complex model is difficult enough. But when you add that, particularly, as you say, if people are over scheduled and that's one of the main reasons why they raise an ad and say, hey, I need some, I need to do something different Dump in a whole load of extra complicated stuff, the likelihoods with the best will and the likelihood of that being done is slim. So breaking it down into bite-sized chunks, that kind of bridges nicely into kind of the book conversation, because we often have this. I think I said it in last week's show as well. I was saying that we have a lot of conversations with people who are coming with ideas, but the ideas are coming from that 10 years of experience perspective.

I need to tell people this level of information where really the majority of books, where we're trying to engage with people, is at this level. It's the 101 introduction. They're just starting their journey, so don't over complicate it by delivering the 202 level of knowledge. It's starting at that position. So for you guys in the program, was it intentional or a happy coincidence to really I don't want to say strip back, but really think about the simple implementation steps?

Brannon: Absolutely. We wanted to make this very simple, very bite-sized. There were a lot of programs, when we looked at our competition, that were and I think this is, you know, this is an interesting thing about professionals in a lot of different professions. I see it in law, for sure, and in accounting, and there's, like you mentioned, it's this hey, I've got to show my knowledge. I've got to that more is more like if I write a, if I?

write a 2000 page book or if I come up with a super complicated, people are going to value that more somehow. And it's the opposite, because people need something actionable. They don't, they won't. They don't need to know how much. They need to know what you know. That will actually move the needle for them.

Stuart: Yeah, and yeah, they start in their journey. That's the exact thing to bear in mind. That it's they're starting their journey. It's great to have additional things later, but it's the wrong place to have it at the beginning part of that conversation. Whether the conversation is just sales discovery call at the very early part or importing into the early days, it's.

I made that mistake last. At the end of last year, someone invited me to dial into a webinar to give a quick presentation on some book things and I just finished the school card book that goes through the eight book mindsets. So I was probably overly proud of that. It is super valuable, but it's not a. It's not the first part of the conversation. It's the second or third part of the conversation. The invitation that I got was to really talk to a group of people who hadn't necessarily thought about writing a book at all and trying to deliver in a short period of time these eight mindsets, which is super useful, but not if you're going from. I've never even thought about writing a book. What's the benefit? So completely the little postmortem that I did myself afterwards completely judge the the right level and not that I was intentionally trying to show how much like overwhelm with how much we know, but just trying to deliver too much of the wrong value or the right value, but at the wrong time.

Brannon: So it is really a balancing act it is, and you've got to keep people engaged, and so there's got to be entertainment value. We hired a coach to help us build the program from the perspective of just engagement, like human engagement, because a lot of our programs are video, there's a video component, and so we wanted to keep people engaged. And one of the things I'll never forget she told me that our coach was think about a Hollywood movie, like you turn into a side Miami. When there's crime scene investigators, investigation movies, what's the first thing that happens in the first? Yeah, the drama in the dead body.

Dead body there's always dead body right away and she's you got to have that. You need that in your, in your videos is what's your dead body in the first minute?

Stuart: it's you got to capture people do you know what it's such an interesting thing. We've had a lot of conversations in the last few days and this could be a whole other conversation. Maybe we do another podcast at some point in the future, diving into this little bit. So I've had so many conversations the last couple of weeks or couple of months talking about the chat, gpt type, revelation moment and abundance 360 is on at the moment. So we've been dialing into those live streams this idea of of content being much more easily generated through ai. But I think the point can't be done is this idea of engagement. So a base level of content is going to go from here to here, because it's easier for people to create that generation of relevant stuff just gets done.

But when you think about it in terms of your program, let's say, for example, we're three years down the track generating video modules that go along with your core agenda, that might get easier from an ai perspective, but that idea of delivering the engaging content that's not necessarily going to be there and not there in the way that that is into your brand, to you, your way of doing things. So for you to have gone through those steps to think about, okay, we're going to make some content that is engaging, that keeps people, gives them a hook to get tuned into, to raise that energy level, and then it's tailored to our program, so we've got some personality and perspective on top of it. That's going to be such a difference maker because the baseline is being raised, like everyone not everyone, but more people are going to be able to go from zero to something, to be able to go from something to something better. That's going to be a challenge and it looks like that was quite a big thing that you addressed in the setup.

Brannon: Yeah, it was something we were very aware of, because people can only read so much at one time, people can only listen for so long at one time, so you have to bring in and you have to engage them and sometimes leave some space in there and there's a science to it. 

Stuart: For sure, and that idea of leaving the space around the logical steps as someone is coming in from not knowing who you are at all to having some introduction that gets them to a landing page or something or a podcast or something that allows them the opportunity to raise their hand through those first three points to the call to action.

That minimum viable step of what text it is such a go from nothing to something is the 80%. Spend a lot of time saying to people don't get too hung up on it, at least in the first iteration, get the first working version out there and then you can always tweak but the dial in and the refining it. Once you've got that space to think about refining it is quite a step. So you mentioned you've got three books I guess four books and a traditional book and then three books that you're writing with us. The first one was the unplugged vacation, which I'm guessing comes from this idea that you've got a lot of over subscribed people. Do you want to talk about that one a little bit and what the impetus behind the book was and who the audience was that you were trying to serve?

Brannon: Yeah, the unplugged vacation was addressing the major issue that our clients have. And I had a call with a younger CPA years ago and he said he wanted to sell us. And I started asking him like do you enjoy what you do? Yeah, I like the profession, I love my clients, I'm engaged, I love my staff, like everything's good. He was just burned out.

I said when's the last time you had a vacation? And it had been quite a while for him. And I said look, before you sell your paper, go, take a week off, go somewhere really cool. Don't take your laptop, don't take your smartphone, go and just completely unplug and then come back and see if you like your business. He's still in practice. Okay, yeah, I knew this was a need because so many people in today's world, so many people are staying connected all the time. They don't disconnect and our brains need to unravel and it's actually a big benefit to your business. And so that was. And we give this book out at conferences. We took it to an AI CPA conference in Las Vegas right when we published it and we printed off a couple of copies and we were just handed off. So we would come up to people and say do you check email when you're on vacation?

And they would be like, yeah, we're like you need to read this book, and they would take the book, they'd put it under their arm and walk around the conference. We saw these orange books all over the conference, so it was great for that.

Stuart: It's such a so many opportunities to use books in different ways. We've done some podcasts in the past talk about some of those different ideas but the fact that there's a relatively straightforward way of getting it created it's not the traditional publishing lock yourself in a cabinet and six months and thousands of dollars of editing. So there's a vast cost effective way of creating something. And then, once you've got the asset, the tool, there's a suite of ways in which you can use it. And even if you're using it in the print sense and using it as a kind of elaborate business card in conferences the cost of printing them, I think, even if we include shipping, which is obviously the heavy things, that adds to it a bit but $3 or so to get something printed. Trying to get something printed or the Merchie give it away, type G ball type things that people do at conferences which are debatably affected of value that's created in this thing because it's sharing something. There is an element of it's one of the psychological tricks, if you like all the book the fact that it exists and it's printed on the page. It carries so much more weight than just a brochure or a letter or a pen with your name on it. It's really interesting to think about those ways, now that you've done the work of creating something, the ways that you can use it.

That conversation with people do you take? Do you check email on vacation? It's such a great follow up question. So we often talk about, now that you've got the book, the autoresponder, when someone opts in for a copy, those five or six touch points is the opportunity to get that conversation going. And second email so the first email is delivering the book, the second email we refer to as beer email, a short personal expecting a reply, that do you check emails when you're on vacation. It's such a disarming and that opens up the gates to a conversation. I imagine that's something that has resonated with you guys and then with the people you asked the question.

Brannon: Yeah, the expressions on their faces were very interesting to watch, it was.

Stuart: It's not. It's not what you would expect someone to ask you, and it's. It forces you to stop and think for a second before answering it. Yeah.

Brannon: Yeah, we got a lot of different answers and some people was like, of course doesn't everybody.

Stuart: How could you not yeah?

Brannon: So it was an interesting and we had a great conference because there was, I think, about 2000 people there, so it was a lot of people to test it out.

Stuart: On An idea of writing a book sparked by the conversation with that CPA. Is that a book? Obviously, there's two more followed on from that. So we're thinking in terms of very different funnels and different approaches, different opportunities for people to come into the world. Has that first book, the unplugged vacation one, do you find that is typically used as like a lead generation piece at the top of the funnel to people who don't know you, or is it more like a lead conversion piece? People come in maybe from different channels, but this is a great way of people who are aware of you, of elevating the conversation and sparking a different thought process.

Brannon: because it's an engaged question, that's a it's a little bit of a difficult thing for us to answer because we are a very heavy content driven company and we're very, if you think about our transactional. We broke our CPA firms, so most of our business is extremely transactional and our sales cycle is very lengthy. So sometimes I'll talk to people five, even 10 years before they want to sell.

So we have this lengthy pipeline and we've used it both as a lead generation like at the conference with people who didn't know us, and we've used it as a conversation follow-up. So let's say I'm nurturing a long-term lead, someone who's thinking about selling their business, and they call me three, four years prior and they're burned out, and I've just from a conversation that I might have with them on a common follow-up call. Then I go oh, I've got this book for you, let me send this to you, and so I think it helps nurture the relationship even more. And we, when you think about our product, it's a very high value, it's a high trust type of yeah. 

Stuart: And that rapport building the fact that there are all different tools that you can deploy depending on how the conversation goes. Again, it's an asset that's created in one point of time, that's useful for decades down the track to be able to pull out as something that really adds value to the conversation. Because I imagine that it's not thinking about that example. You're checking back in with someone years down the track. This happens to come up in conversation, sending them that copy of the book. It's not closing in the sense of it's not jamming in a sales tool into a conversation. It's really all value and helpful information and building that relationship even more, knowing that it is such a long lead time for conversions.

Brannon: Yeah, exactly. If you're in any kind of sales work and the sales cycle is really lengthy, you'll learn really quick. You can't push people when they're not ready.

Stuart: I talked about the. I've mentioned it on a couple of shows recently. There was a book that someone had recommended years ago. I think it's actually out of print now. It's called One Selling by an Australian academic called Michael Gleason, and here's I can't one. That is an acronym for something and the fact that he's Australian. That's why I'm guessing that's what led to the title.

But one of the things that he talks about in that book is this idea of check moves. So here's work with sales teams is that the sales people are never finally in control of the sale. That's always in the hands. They're the ones that make the decision. So it's misplaced to incentivize or track sales people on closures. What you should be tracking is closing opportunities, so what he'll check moves. So every time you do an outreach they would lead to a close check that track that.

And it's really horses the bit that you said. You can't force someone into it, but by staying there as a trusted partner, as a trusted advisor or someone useful in their world, knowing that will, being there at the point that they decide that today is the day for them, is the secret, and this being another Even then. Again, we sometimes have conversations with people who are talking about books and want to put the cart before the horse and run down the track of thinking about five before they've even done one. But even if you had one book to be able to pull out a use, full chapter or useful takeaway that kind of reinforces the conversation, and then follow up with the book by using it to deliver more value, you definitely don't three or four. It can be done with one. It's just thinking about ways of now I've got this asset, how can I use it in a way that adds value? That leads to the second book. The second book was positioned slightly differently. Don't give us a bit of a background on that one.

Brannon: So we the second book was scaling, scaling cloud firms. In the last, I'd say, five to seven years, we've seen an increasing number of fully virtual CPA firms that are being sold now, and I think these firms were probably started being created maybe 2010 ish, and so we really didn't see any sales of those firms until a few years afterwards. And it's becoming a bigger and bigger part of our business. So we thought, hey, we'd like to get out front as the thought leader and be useful in this industry. So we essentially took some of our knowledge, put it in the book for scaling, knowing that a lot of these cloud firm owners are very entrepreneurial and they're very interested in growth. A lot of those firms grow very quickly, so that's what they're interested in, and so we wrote something to help them and then, hopefully, if they're interested in acquiring or selling, they'll think of us when that time comes.

Stuart: Such a great way of thinking about a niche, like taking a moment to think about the trajectory of the industry as a whole or if there's a segment coming up and, like you say, there's an opportunity with being the first to market with something that introduces the idea.

And it doesn't need to be like the book itself is 70 pages or so. It's not like you wrote again six months in a cabriolet and writing the 2000 page tome on cloud computing. It's just hitting the idea because, as you said, these are long converting opportunities into dynamic and moving environment. So it's in the idea, always knowing that there's more stuff off book, out of book. There's kind of building on it. It really allows you to be quite lean and move quickly to get something up there. That introduces a fascinating thought process to think about the different assets that you've got in the books. There's like a founding fundamental walk addressing a problem that a lot of people have got. There's a new early market. Here's a thought technology that is evolving as we speak, and then the third book, trying to talk about the third book and where that sits in the spectrum.

Brannon: So the third book, which it's one of those ideas like why didn't I have this idea 10 years ago? It's how to prepare your CPA firm for a sale. So we actually had a white paper that was about 10 pages long called our succession planning guide, which has been very successful, and now that we have the business alongside the brokerage business, this sort of serves both audiences. We felt like this would be a great tool for promoting our coaching business.

It would also be a great tool for people that don't really want to be coached but might want some easy sort of low hanging fruit ideas to get their business in shape to sell and then hopefully, if we give them value and it's helpful, when they do go to sell, they'll call us.

Stuart: And that's exactly the point, isn't it?

It's not like the job of work of the book is close those people immediately, it's to make them aware of you so all of your potential clients could be interested in that book, whether it's today or 10 years down the track.

So it thinking of the books is that first step, and I think that's a big difference between the 90 minute book approach and the traditional approach.

The traditional book either publishes the thinking about it in terms of the book itself being the product. Therefore it needs to be so big and it needs to be. It needs to be able to justify a $20 hardback cost and we want to sell 20,000 of them or it's people think about traditional type of books is I want to put all of my knowledge in here so that people are overwhelmed by the book, so that they immediately throw me up asking to do business with me and it does complete the sale cycle for me, when the practicality of that, the reality is that's not the case. It's like you've described customers who are one to 10 year journey of absorbing information and then at some point they're going to be ready. The benefit of the books that you've created is it starts that conversation and to a certain degree, in their mind, you've adopted the incumbent position. It doesn't guarantee that they'll come to you, but it certainly makes it more likely.

Brannon: Yeah, and it gets them in our funnel right. It gets them in our ecosystem of content, which we're big content creators. It's a great tool and I think it's also even if it's a 50 page book, you're still an author and you're still. It gives you credibility in your space and people don't want to read a long book, not busy professionals I had. When we got back from the Las Vegas conference that I talked about earlier, I got an email from a gentleman who was there and he said hey, I read your book and, coming back from the conference and can you send me five or six other copies, I want to send this to some of my CPA buddies that I know, sure what's your address, and we send him five other copies or 10 other copies or whatever. And it doesn't have to be a long read and, matter of fact, it's better if it's not for most busy people.

Stuart: Yeah, it's this idea of your thing, the idea of, like, how to sell the CPA practice or how to put it to be. That could be a college credit course. You could have like months and months worth of stuff that could go into it or scale it back. It could be 200 pages or scale it back further. It could introduce the idea and the concepts and deliver the beginnings of value and then give people the way to get more. It's the start of the conversation. It's such a key difference because, like you say, it makes it more likely that it will be read and it makes it more likely that it will done, because you started off the call by talking about the first traditional book you did and it was more painful than the last three. So, with them being busy, the likelihood of going from nothing to something is way more valuable than going from, from not having thinking about doing something but not actually having it, because you never get it finished.

Brannon: Yeah, and only that, but I think the two, the mindset that I would encourage people that are writing a book and thinking about it is it's better if it's not long and just give them the real meaty stuff. Don't be afraid to give them stuff that's really going to help them, because the more you think about helping your reader, more that book is going to do the job that you want it to do, right their authenticity and their value comes across.

Stuart: People can tell if you're holding things back or if it's just superficial, and then the call to action is when I need to come into the office and, well, lock the door behind you and I'll grab you for two hours.

It's working these times, super, appreciate it's your time. I would be really great at some point and they're not teachers in the future to jump on another call and talk about the. You guys are such big in terms of content and delivering value beyond the book, so it'd be really great to jump on another call at some point if you've got time to really dive into that, because you guys have got not only the ability to create that content but you've got a mindset of creating it and continuing to deliver value, and the books feed into that funnel and trigger some of it and their anchor points for some of those later conversations. So that whole ecosystem that you've got of having various different assets that you plug together and I'm sure it's now in a situation or known date which is much more advanced than it was to begin with. So if you have time at some point and not to just in future be great to dive into that a little bit more.

Brannon: Yeah, be happy to we. In fact, we are in the process of reorganizing our website because we have so much content that we found out that, hey, our content's a bit scattered, so we need to bring it into one hub and have it all Easter. At least you can find your path to it fairly easily, and maybe that'll be a good point to touch back with you.

Stuart: Yeah, and we can do. You can share the kind of before and after, because I think it is it's an organic problem. It starts off. You're not a content creation business as such, so you didn't start off by building everything to scale to 100 people consuming the content, and I think this is the problem that everyone gets. You start off by having a blog and then maybe having a YouTube channel and then it just gets very spread out so to be able to consolidate it and link it together. Yeah, that'd be a point to do that. Thanks again for your time. I don't want to make sure that people have got access to check out more of what you guys do. So what's a great resource or place for people to go to find out more?

Brannon: best place is just good on our website, which is ho group advisorscom.

Stuart: Fantastic. We'll make sure we put some links in the show notes for it, both on the podcast feed and the website of the episode. So as you listen to this, check that out. Obviously, if you've got any interest, if you're CPA firm and you've got interested in the coaching side of the business or you're thinking about selling or setting it up that way, but even if you're in any other business, recommend checking out just to see what what Brannon and the guys are doing. This has been really enjoyable. Like I said, a million questions. I could think we could talk for another hour, but that'd be really good to check back in again. So thanks again for your time this morning. Thanks everyone for listening. Definitely check out the show notes. We'll put the link there to Po Group Advisors. And thank you, we'll catch you in the next one.

Brannon: Thank you, Stuart. Look forward to coming back.

Stuart: Fantastic.