Today on the Book More Show, we have another of my favorite types of podcasts as we get to with one of our authors, Mike Mack.

You might recognize Mike's name because he's both written a book and has been a guest on the podcast before. So today he's back having just published a second book with us, Relationships for Keeps, and if you follow us on Facebook, you might have seen a video I shot as the book launched in towards the end of last year.

This is a really great episode. Mike has some fantastic insights into not only the creation process, but how he's using the book and, not surprisingly, how it's amplifying the relationships he has.

If you listened to the previous podcast with Mike, you'll remember relationships are key to how he builds his business and the framework or lens through which he views things. It comes across both in the tone and friendliness of the way he speaks, and in the steps, he takes to nurture those relationships and really add value at every stage.

It's not only the subject of his book, but that's really what all of our books are about.

Giving value to start a relationship and then build a journey, a follow-up that educates and motivates people towards the next step.

There is a lot to take away in this episode.

Mike Mack

Mike is the Managing Partner of X5 Management, providing Training, Coaching and Consulting services to middle market businesses since 2006. They support businesses in the areas of: Customer Service, Sales Growth, Team Building, Leadership Development and Strategic Planning.

Mike is the best-selling author of REMARKABLE SERVICE – How to Keep Your Doors Open” and RELATIONSHIPS FOR KEEPS – How to Build Powerful Relationships in Business and in Life

Mike holds an MBA from Athabasca University. He is active in the community and is a proud member of Synergy Network (Edmonton), serving as Chair in 2016; Past-President of the ACG Edmonton Chapter and served as the Corporate Growth Summit Chair in 2017. He is known as the voice of the ACG Summit, serving as our Master of Ceremonies for the past six years; Member of the Institute of Corporate Directors; Completion of the Governance for Small & Medium-sized enterprises program at the University of Alberta; Past member of Toastmasters International, obtaining his Distinguished Toastmasters Designation - DTM. The Distinguished Toastmaster award is the highest Toastmasters International bestows. The DTM recognizes a superior level of achievement in both communication and leadership; Member of CAPS (Canadian Association of Professional Speakers); Past-President, Rotary Club of Edmonton Mayfield (200506); National TEC Canada Speaker; Mike is a Certified Trainer for Everything DiSC®. Mike and his wife Bonita live in Edmonton and enjoy mountain biking in Edmonton’s River Valley or in the majestic mountains of Alberta.

www.x5management.com | www.mikemack.ca

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Transcript: Book More Show 096

Stuart Bell:
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Book More Show. It's Stuart Bell here, and today is another one of my favorite types of podcast, because today we get to speak to one of our authors. Mike Mack, you might recognize the name because Mike has written a book with us before, and a podcast guest with us before, and is now back having just written a second book with us called Relationships for Keeps. If you follow us on Facebook, you might have seen a video that I shot just as the book launched towards the end of last year. This is a really great episode. Mike has got some fantastic insights into not only the creation process, but how he is using the book, and not surprisingly, how it is amplifying the relationships he's got.

If you've listened to the last podcast, then obviously remember the relationships are key to, not particularly sponsoring his business, but certainly how he builds the business, and the framework, or the lens which he views everything through is very relationship dominant. That comes across, both in the tone and the friendliness in the podcast, and I'm sure you'll hear that as you listen, but also in the steps that he takes to nurture those relationships, and really add value at every stage. At the end of the day, that's specifically what his book is about, but that's really what all of our books are about. It's given that value to start that relationship, to build of the journey, and to lead people, to educate and motivate them on towards the next step.

So, with that, take a listen. It's a great show, and I'll catch you on the other side. Mike Mack, great to have you back on the show. How are you doing?

Mike Mack:
Wonderful, Stuart. Always a pleasure to be on your show.

Stuart Bell:
Always great to hear from you. I was just saying before we start recording that yourself and a couple of other guys always hold that position as the go-to reference or example when we're talking to people, so I'm sure people are pretty familiar with the name Mike Mack. If long-term listeners, they'll probably remember that you are on the show a little while ago, which I'll link in the show notes. But obviously you've got a lot of new listeners now, people that haven't come across this in the past. Do you want to give me a quick Mike Mack intro 101, and then we'll pick up on the book from there?

Mike Mack:
Indeed, Stuart. Again, thanks again for the opportunity. So Mike Mack, I am the managing partner of X5 Management, based out of Alberta, Canada. We offer training, coaching and consulting services. Been doing that since about 2006, dealing with the corporate audience, and I also do, on a personal level do a lot of speaking. It's usually in the areas of customer service, relationships, sales, etc. Really that lane has been the catalyst to become, over the last number of years, an author. That's how I connected with you. This goes back four plus years ago, Stuart, when I had the good fortune of utilizing your services as well. So, love what we do professionally, and it's been a real fun journey bringing books on the marketplace, and on Amazon as well. Thanks again to you and your team for that.

Stuart Bell:
Well, the setup as we've been working with you in the past is slightly different. The ability that you've got to bring all these thoughts together, and then we can just help get it on the line and do on the production side stuff. That's slightly different from some of the other guys that we're working with, but even those first drafts, there's always great team when your team, the first few times, our team on this side are always excited to see that first draft. Because Remarkable Service, which was the first book that went through, that was really the toughest, and the trigger for a lot of things that we've subsequently referred to.

So, this idea of, I don't want to say heartfelt journey, because that makes it sound a little bit too woo-woo. But the softer side of adding the service element, and the personal connections. Obviously lots of people, it's not new to a lot of people, but the way it was positioned in that book is now a way that we refer to things in a number of examples. And then we're excited to see the second book, the Relationships for Keeps come through, because that seems to be quite a refinement of the thinking, if that's the right way of putting it, or certainly as it's come together, it goes deeper and more structural. Was that the way that you felt about it, as well, or was that just me as the reader perceiving it that way?

Mike Mack:
No, it's a great observation. I guess a couple things come to mind. Putting Remarkable Service together, and that project started four years ago. I used my own knowledge base and experience relative to customer service. All the chapters predominantly had a good story, whether we were speaking of a lighting company in India, or an IT company in Alberta, car dealerships, etc. It was an entertaining read by design, where readers had an opportunity to appreciate customer service stories, as you can appreciate today, readers like a story. It really connects with them in the book. Relationship For Keeps was a journey for the last number of years. Kind of loosely depicting some of my own experiences in my relationship with my mentor, Arnold McLachlan.

So the uniqueness of that one, Stuart, is I create a character development. So, very unique from a traditional business book, will put fictional characters within that particular book. You follow that journey along with the two main characters of Joe and Vic throughout that particular piece. Definitely more personal, and from the relationship perspective, what I was going for was really to connect with that business audience and the personal audience, as well. It's pertaining to building powerful relationships in business and in life. Just a quick comment relative to your team, you made a comment earlier about the relationship side.

Not only was your service incredible with your entire team, but I truly felt that connection with the relationship. I would joke about it to friends, almost, how awesome you were in that, I could get an email at five o'clock on a Sunday, or somebody would take a quick phone call at seven o'clock in the morning on a Monday morning. So it was way more than the process, for me, of writing the book, but that collaborative support with a bunch of friends, almost. That's how I felt. My next book, rest assured, will be produced through your and your team again.

Stuart Bell:
Fantastic. That becomes an addictive creation process. Once you know that on the mechanism side of it, the interesting nuts and bolts side of it can be taken care of. Then you can just look at the content, and think about the story and the words that you want to get out there. It does become slightly addictive. It's like tattoos. The first one is the first of many, for a lot of people.

Mike Mack:
Well, very true, and I want to comment on that on a couple levels. I joke writing a book is kind of like a tattoo. Once you've done a couple, you want more. But I remember it very vividly, learning of your services back four, four and a half years ago. In fact, I was involved with Strategic Coach, and Dan Sullivan was familiar with your services, if you recall.

Stuart Bell:
Yes.

Mike Mack:
Taking the headache away from the logistics and the process, and being creative and focusing on the book, the story made all the difference. I often say that had I not used your services at the get-go, I'm not sure that first book would've been out there, would have been as good. Because I was really allowed to focus on the book, and the story, rather than the detail in the minutia behind all of that, as well. That's the valuable resource that you and your team provide, for sure.

Stuart Bell:
It's so interesting, as we are recording this, there's a great event, he's doing a constant celebration. I was across there yesterday afternoon, and one of the points that came up in that discussion was, it's difficult. The first day of the event, we usually are following through the Breakthrough Blueprint process of looking at the four unit elements of attracting an audience first, and obviously a book fits in very well with that. One of the things that came up with this idea that the curse of knowledge. It's difficult to remember how much customers don't know, because they don't have the same level of knowledge and understanding that you do.

So, bridging that into what you were saying about being able to create, and only have to worry about the creation process, because we enjoy the mechanics of getting the books produced. It makes that so much easier to take that burden away, so that you can just concentrate on the words, and of the narrative, and taking people from the title through to the back cover, and the thoughts that are going on. Now again, I've sidetracked, or slow down, or even just the emotional or full baggage of, "Okay, even if I get these words down, what do I then do?" It's so interesting that for us, it doesn't really slow the boat down at all, because it's what we enjoy, and it's what we do day in and day out. But for other people, that's really quite a difference in just being able to get to the point that it's not preventing you from getting those thoughts written down.

Mike Mack:
Indeed.

Stuart Bell:
The creation process, was that something that, because from our perspective, we see you as someone who is able to write very well, and I would say very quickly, although you mentioned that it was four and a half years ago that we started the first one. Maybe it's that, as you're getting older time compresses type thing, but still we see it as somebody who is able to write, and not have a barrier to that at all. Do you see it that way?

Mike Mack:
Yeah, I think a couple comments. Particularly the last book, Stuart, I just decided to be really disciplined. Not only I wanted to finish it in 2019, I made a commitment, I would say I was half done, fundamentally, a year ago. The early part of 2019, and the book came out in November of 2019. I committed that I would start. I started on a regular basis, and I really only worked on the weekends. I'll say mainly Saturday morning. I'm an early riser, so I might have been in the book at six o'clock, writing and re-creating, and used my wife a lot as a sounding board. She's published a book in the past, as well, so she was creative in that regard, just to give me some insights. Because I was more creative and more focused, versus doing that on a Tuesday at three o'clock. It wasn't realistic to do that.

So, that worked for me, where I just took that block of time, and I committed to it. And as you can appreciate, the more I did it, it just became easier because it didn't feel like work. I was in the zone, and feeling like I was building and creating something, as well. But it does take time, and I think even now to say I've got the next book in my head, and I've got the one after that in my head. That's the fun part, but there is still work to put it to paper, creating a storyline, if you will. But then more importantly, make it a value of entertainment, in most cases, for the reader. That's something you have to really, really keep in mind in the process. I'll end on a comment on that. When you writable, as you can appreciate, you really put yourself out there. So for me, it was a great test of vulnerability.

You could like my book, and 10 other people didn't, and you had to be okay with that. That's the reality when you put it out to the public, and it's on Amazon. Public domain, if you will. I've got a lot of great feedback on that, but I'm sure some people may not have enjoyed it as much as I hoped, but the piece that keeps me going always is, even those private messages you get, or the Amazon reviews relative to how it impacted them. That's what's most important versus saying you were a great writer, versus, they related to the personal aspect, or the business aspect, or struggling through a family situation, etc. That's really ultimately the most gratifying, as an author, when it's done beyond it becoming a bestseller on Amazon.

That's great, and that was definitely a goal. I'd like to talk about that a little bit after, because that was definitely a process, too, when the time is right for that question, as well.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, that's an interesting one. Because it's a question that we get a lot, and the points that you were making about the time it takes to create the story, thread the narrative through and make sure that it's entertaining and value driven. I guess we should step back a stage and just note the differences between how you work with us, and how the majority of people work with us in that you come with the completed manuscript, and then we're taking it through the production stages, whereas the majority of people are coming with the idea, and then we are helping them write and create. The points that you make, and we had a show, maybe four or five episodes ago now, with Justin Breen, who is a PR specialist, and helps companies take that, gain earned media by creating things that have that hook.

It was a point that he made, as well. The idea that we're trying to get the value of the idea that raises the hand and starts the conversation, in the majority of 90 minute books, that's the smaller time commitment to get those ideas down, and lead someone towards the next step by giving them value within a smaller sentence. But even within that smaller sentence, to be able to illustrate it, and back it up, and amplify with personal stories that are relatable to allow people to contextualize the thing that you are trying to deliver in the value. It just gives it deeper hooks, and creates more of a rapport with people. I think that's well worth anyone remembering, whether they are working through the traditional 90 minute book process, or like you, writing yourself, and then just coming through the production stage of things.

Mike Mack:
Yeah. If I may know, Stuart, just on that note, the first book from four years ago, here's how I look at it, and a compliment again to you and your team. You really taught me how to ride a bike. Once I understood the fundamentals, that's when the creative process, because I think the second book, arguably I would say it was more fun for me, because I had more time just to be creative. I didn't have to think about the structure. My assistant, who has been with me now two and a half years, worked closely with me in getting that book live back in 2017, on the revised edition of Remarkable Service.

Then having her coordinate with your team, Becky, and Kim and so on allowed me to not have to think about that, what that's like getting posted on Amazon, and how we are categorizing the book, and all of that, I didn't have to worry about. I just had to be of a creative guy behind the story and the product, if you will. So, what you do in your system and your process, I just want to echo that, was really paramount for me. Next time, I don't need to do that again, but I understand the process, and I think unless someone is a really gifted writer naturally, I think sometimes we overthink it. Knowing what I learned from the first process was significant, and I would recommend they go through that process and the consults on the front end to really put it together. My book, I don't know if you have an average word count with all of your authors and the finished products.

I mean, my two books combined, they probably average north of 20,000 words, right?

Stuart Bell:
Yeah.

Mike Mack:
So that's a little bit of a broader book. Some may be smaller than that, because I think the very first edition of Remarkable Service that I did with you and your team. That actually came out four years ago, 2016, and that was probably less than 15,000 words, just to give you context. So, really beef that up, if you will.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, and even 15,000, we typically are recording for, I think people by now, to just talk about the process. We are recording for an hour to get that contact, and depending on how densely someone speaks, and how much editing is required to change it from that conversational format to a more narrative format. I would say that typically, with more than 8,000 to 10,000 words is the average size. That, as a way of communicating one concept of getting someone to raise their hand as interested and being the start of the journey is absolutely fine. It really helps to constrain the scope of something so that you are answering the question deeply, and not being too superficial, and it constrains the scope and terms of the time and commitment that it takes to get this thing created.

But interestingly, what you were saying about building on the version two, and taking that almost doubling the size of it in version two, and then coming back with the second book and being able to create something even bigger. I like what you were saying about riding the bike to begin with. The first version being the version that will get you from A to B, but maybe there's a little bit of the scooter bike thing going on, where it's a little bit wobbly sometimes, and it's not a bike that would win the Tour de France. But once you've mastered that, and you've used it, and you've gotten comfortable with it, it makes it so much easier. And all of these other things that prevent people from getting their thoughts out there, the overheads of production, the concern about writing an outline or a structure that makes sense, the idea of introducing the story elements, the emotional elements to it that amplify and reinforce, and this overriding thought of leading people towards the next step.

Once you've done that, and it's more comfortable, then you can concentrate on the next level of adding more content, of adding more depth, of being able to spend more time, because you don't have to take that time to do the other steps that aren't adding to the content. And also, I think knowing the sensible scope constraints, because that's one of the things we see a lot, particularly with people who are writing themselves, and then coming to us afterwards. We'll hear stories of, "I've been doing this for 18 months now, and I've got 10,000 words, but it's all a little bit random, and I'm not really able to close it back in." So this idea of scope constraint, I think is a huge one. In a world where anything could be included, you really, the only reason not to include something is because you're choosing not to include something.

Without having the discipline to control that scope, or without having someone else helping you to control that scope, very easy to talk yourself or write yourself into a black hole of just more being more, rather than were being more value.

Mike Mack:
Well said, and I want to comment on that, because I felt that many times. As you look at the finished product now, and I'm proud of both of those books. But you would say, "Hey, chapter three, I would have added this." That's hindsight, but being at peace with where it's at, and getting it out, you can always do a revised edition. The other side, what you and your team do well is that relative size of the book. Even mine, comfortably, to get those two books read each within three hours or less, comfortably. Most people also appreciated that. They could read it over a weekend and go, "Hey, I read your book." Versus it being twice as long, and indeed more is not necessarily better, for sure.

Stuart Bell:
We had someone Betsy was talking to, I can't remember what industry they were in. I don't know. Anyway, it was last week, but they were talking about this idea. The idea was heading towards multiple hundreds of pages. I mean, there was just so much that we were talking about, that they would talk about. We introduce the idea that the choice is either to take all of this additional time and effort to create the one thing, and the amount of leverage that one thing has is a relatively fixed amount, but breaking it up into the five or six clearly definable things within the book that could have been individually written, individual titles, and saying to them that the same time and effort to create all of this is going to go from their perspective, is going to go into writing them as individual pieces.

But the additional leverage that you've got of having those individual pieces is almost exponential, because you've got the opportunity to use it in multiple different ways, multiple different campaigns, and those campaigns being nice, specific, and relevant to whatever the individual subject is. But then you've got the opportunity to leverage and use the other books, the other assets in that follow-up campaign. Rather than having it all go into one, engage someone with the first one, but then introduce them to the fact that the others exist, because that will then lead them down the path towards the end goal. But instead of it all being presented at once, it is essentially in bite-size, magical, sensible chunks. And the final benefit, which is, I'm guessing a benefit that you're seeing, as well. It is, from zero to an author with a book is a huge step.

From zero to an author with a number of books is then, the credibility just builds on it even more. So, I'm assuming that if you are already, or if not very shortly, you are going to be a person that has multiple titles. That, in and of itself is a leverage, is an amplifier, because people are seeing it as, I've written several books rather than just one.

Mike Mack:
Yeah, I'll comment on that. Particularly in my local market, anyway, in Edmonton, Alberta Canada, we've got a million people in the greater Edmonton area. I've been here 20+ years, so people, I'll say know me for a few things. What I do professionally, and the associations I'm involved with, but great example is last week, and old business connection of mine that I don't see very often, and his name is Jim. We were at an event last week, and ironically, it was the first thing that he brought up. "Hey Mike, how are sales going on that new book?" And he's known me for five years, so that would be a guy that I don't even know if he bought the book, but the fact that he saw it somewhere, obviously on social media, and it was the first thing he brought up, says something about someone I see twice a year.

That was gratifying, and it validates that, I'll at least say the perceived credibility, because a lot of people go, "Hey, you wrote a book," and then when you put it on Amazon, strategically we worked on making both those books become Amazon bestseller, which is a whole science to that and a lot of work at the same time.

Stuart Bell:
Right.

Mike Mack:
But you get it to a relative level that suggests, at least, that you're credible. When more and more people read it and actually like the content, that elevates you even further. It's an organic build, though, as you can appreciate it. I'm not that famous, but in a local marketplace, I wrote the book to add value, but at the same time, it's really been an incredible door opener on the business front in terms of consulting, and the training services that we provide. I'll comment on a couple things that might be helpful for your future clients and authors. When I think about promoting the book, obviously social media is number one. You can move so much information, whether that's in the form of promoting it on Amazon, and I don't do that anymore, but I did on Amazon Bestseller Day.

Lots of memes, pictures of the book, and your team does a great job of providing us a nice digital kit and assets relative to the book, beautifully displayed on a table with a cup of coffee, so there's good permission. I order a lot of copies, and a lot is all relative. I probably order 100 copies at a time, and if I'm going out for a meeting, as I am this morning, meeting someone new. I often bring a copy of one or two of those books, and it's my gift, more times than not they ask me to sign it, and that's wonderful.

Stuart Bell:
Right.

Mike Mack:
But it's a gift, and six months later, someone calls and access to do some work. That's a paid opportunity, because you gave someone a book six months ago, as an example. As my latest book reference, it's about dropping a pebble and chasing the ripples. It's a slow process, but it's intended to be goodwill in nature, but most people, if it looks like it's an easy enough book to read, it's not 8,000 pages. Most people come back, and in fact the person I'm muting today, they have read the book, and specifically wanted to meet me again after seeing me in December because they have some insight on how it impacted them. I'm excited to hear that in an hour. It's an ongoing process, but it's very gratifying.

Stuart Bell:
And that accessibility, both in the content, because it's small enough to consume. It's not like you've presented someone with homework to go and read up. It's something that's adding value to the relationship because it is gift-giving. It is creating a rapport with someone in a way that seems very genuine, and not asking for something. I think that your underlying personality, and I highly recommend, we will make sure that this is linked in the show notes, as well. We will show them before we go, but I highly recommend that everyone reads both of those books, because that authenticity and a genuine interest in the relationships that you've got naturally, I think permeates then through this path of giving people the book because it's just genuinely a nice thing to do, and it's giving them something of value, and the fact that then, in a number of occasions, turns into something further down the track is because you were able to keep that relationship going.

Which obviously is a big part of how both books are written on that subject. This idea of creating something of value that starts the conversation, that is a door opener, and I know we're going to run out of time today, and I'm grateful for the time that we managed to get, so I think we should schedule something else, sooner rather than later, just to talk about how you use it in a day-to-day sense.

Mike Mack:
Sure.

Stuart Bell:
But that idea of giving something to someone that is of value, because the conversation you're having is represented by the words in the book. It's kind of somatically the same, so the whole Mike Mack train, for whatever term, is heading down this path. The book, at several points, is a relevant reference point that you can refer back to. I think once it is something that's created, it is something that lives out there, this opportunity just to refer to it on social media, in discussion forums, in live events, in person, when you're meeting someone one-on-one. There's just so many opportunities to have the asset, have the book as something that reinforces the point that you're making, without forcing it down someone's throat that you're trying to make this point. The subtle elements of it are somewhat difficult to quantify, but I think that's a lot of the underlying power, amplified then by your approach naturally to relationships and keeping the relationships going.

Mike Mack:
Very true, and this is a quick comment. Thanks for the kind words on that, because that is how I am wired, it's what I do. But this is news to your audience on this show today, but when you think about it, you don't get wealthy, and rich, and famous from selling a book unless you are Tony Robbins or someone such as that. And he's a great author and an individual. It really hit home when we first started working together and talked about providing this book, and the digital assets. Like anything, when you think of an asset, there's value. But it's how you monetize that value down the road that's the magic. It's not the revenue that comes from Amazon, and you make five bucks a book, or whatever the number is. It's everything beyond that.

So for me, the relative price point to buy my own books and give them out is a good enough investment for the long-term that I can give you examples of the magnitude of that return, which has been great. The other part I will note quickly, and I know we are running short of time, is that the beautiful part of leveraging Amazon, and nowadays most books are on the platform of Amazon where you can go in and get someone. I did that a lot at Christmas time. I can do a gift package of my new book and ship it literally anywhere in the world, for a pretty relevant price point. A little bit of a premium on the retail, with the shipping, but if you have prime, and depending upon the markets, that's just another avenue. You could connect with someone, I live in Canada.

It could be someone in Eastern Canada, Southern US, and Europe, in fact. There is really no excuse to get it out there, but you have to decide what the big game is, what your big vision is relative to the book. It's an asset. It's always there. You can do something different with it in six months, and thanks again to your amazing system that allows us to do that.

Stuart Bell:
It's such a fantastic thing. I say it time and again, particularly when I am having podcasts like this with people who have written. The opportunity that we've got, and the things that we come across. To think that, I'm not saying that people could do it without us, obviously, but I think that a number of people wouldn't, because the hassle factor would just get too high. To be able to help someone get out the door, it's so reassuring to be able to speak to people 3, 6, 12 months, three years down the track, and listen to some of the ways. Some of the really inspiring ways that people are using it. It's very satisfying, the small part that we play in helping get that out there.

I can't believe how quick time goes, it's always surprising. I thought what we do is, if we can, we'll schedule something again when calendars align, and maybe go through the different ways that you are using it. But before we leave today, I really wanted to touch on two points. One obviously is just pointing people in the direction of where they could get copies of the books, because we do recommend it a lot. Whenever relationships come up, we will always refer back to these books, so I want to make sure that we give people the opportunity to find a place that they can get a copy. But the other thing is, you more than, there's a couple of people, but you are certainly in that couple of people group who have really made the most of the Amazon bestseller type launch.

People ask us about it quite a lot, and it's definitely not something that we specialize in. With the disconnect between Amazon sales and lead generation, you can't get the details, or you can't immediately get the details of people who buy the book. Then we'll always concentrate on the lead generation more than the bestseller. Having said that, though, being able to have that flag and to use that term definitely has value in and of itself. It's obviously a big job, but are there any points that you see, or things that you've got to set up to make that bestseller status happen? That's the question that we get a lot, so any insights, I'd be glad to.

Mike Mack:
Indeed. If you are okay, I want to give a plug to someone who has helped me through this, if you are fine with that.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, sure.

Mike Mack:
Because she was a huge catalyst. She is a best-selling author, many times over. She is based out of California, and her name is Sherry Sink. I want to give her a little love on the line. She's actually referenced in the back of my book as a quote, as well. So, I've used her services a couple times now, and really just the strategy and the consultative discussion up front as to where the book is going to be placed relative to category. That's a real robust process, and a month in advance. The day of Amazon Bestseller is massive. If I were to throw out a number, I was on my laptop, because all ads are really driven online from 5:00AM to 11:00PM, just to give you context. I have a staff that I'm proud of, so there's a lot of books on Amazon, Stuart, as you well know.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah.

Mike Mack:
So, I launched mine on a Thursday morning back in November. The night before, my rank on Amazon.ca, which is Canada, was 36,000. You had to be in the top 100 to be a bestseller. Over the next 24 hour period of time, I ended up finishing that 24 hour cycle at number 15. There is a lot of process, but it's just go time, steady. Amazon, the big machine, you've just got to. You are promoting your book, and the reality is that you have no way of knowing whether you are winning the race. You see the rankings trend, but you don't know of all of the promotion that you provided, you sent private messages to friends that they all bought the book. You'll have time to ask them again.

So, again that's a bigger conversation. Sherry Sink, I can't say enough amazing things about. Anyone can Google her service in that regard, but I would highly recommend that, because I had a more robust program with her in the first book. Then the second book, we didn't need as extensive amount of support, because we understood the fundamentals. But it's worked, and laser focused. Your question earlier, Stuart, if I may, if people want to acquire the book, obviously it's on Amazon. That's where it's at. One of the things that we did, and we took pride in, it was available on Amazon.ca, .com, and it's also UK, as well. That really is important from a shipping perspective.

As you can appreciate, that someone is in Europe, or someone had an inquiry on social media the day of my bestseller, and they're in Texas, and they couldn't get the book because the link reference is .ca. But when they went to .com in their prime account, they got that book in two days. That's where it's available, and it's priced to be most reasonable as well. It's not a crazy price point that most people would be comfortable with the purchase, and more importantly that they enjoy the read. I also, through your channel, and when you post this show at some point in time, Stuart. If I can be of any assistance to your readers, and future authors that want to use your service. Not only will I give you a big testimonial, as I'm doing publicly right now, but any way I could be of service. They also connect with me on LinkedIn as well, which is relatively available.

Stuart Bell:
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put a link to the book, the three stores, and obviously your LinkedIn profile in the show notes when we release this show, we'll send out the email with the link to the show notes and put it in there. Obviously if you're listening to this in the future, we are recording it at the beginning of February. These shows probably go out in the middle of February, so anytime in the future, just head over to 90minutebooks.com/podcast, and there is a tag on the side. There is either the search box on the side, to search for Mike Mack, or there's an interviews link on the side and you will find all of the interviews, and just search for Mike.

I know that we've got a lot of new details connected in the first show, so hit either of those show notes up and you will be pointed to the right direction.

Mike Mack:
Yeah. Stuart, on that note, if I may, obviously they can look at our business website, x5management.com. Then more on the book side and my speaking platform, but if people want to get ideas from it, they can reference mikemack.ca as well, just for handy reference. More just to give context a little bit on the marketing side as well, Stuart, to thank you again for the opportunity.

Stuart Bell:
No problem. Actually, that's a great point of reference, which I probably should hammer home a little bit more within these interview episodes. It's great to hear the stories of people creating, and how they are using it, and just as a point of entertainment and reference, it's always good to hear other people's stories. But the real secret, as with the other episodes that we do in the More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast that Dean does. Really the whole purpose of this is to substitute your name, as you're listening, for whoever is talking and being interviewed, all the points that we're talking. Because really, we want you to steal as much of this as possible, and replicate it in your own business.

We didn't have time to go into it too much, but the point that you were making about the relative fame and exposure in the local area, compared to a national or global bestseller. Obviously everyone thinks about bestsellers in this global context, but really I would say that 99% of the people listening, if you could dominate there 100 geographic miles from where you live, where the office is, then there would be a hugely successful business for the majority of people.

Mike Mack:
Indeed, Stuart. Yes.

Stuart Bell:
That idea of stealing what is talked about on these podcasts, and dominating your own local area, there's more than enough business to go around for everyone, even if you were in similar spaces. So yeah, definitely head over to Mike's website, and see how he is using things, and just the broader connection. Time flies. I know that I've got to cut you loose in a second. It would definitely be great if we can get a call scheduled for the not too distant future and go through some more of the specifics of how you are using things, and how you use them in the past. Again, I just want to say thanks for your time today, and sharing your story with people.

I know that it, as we hear it, what you're doing with it is always inspirational for us. So, everyone that's listening, there's a number of ideas to take away from this. As I mentioned, we will make sure that there's show notes to everything Mike Mack related in the show notes and links to the books, and Mike is very active on LinkedIn, so I'm guessing that's a great way to connect with you. Apart from that, just want to say thanks again, and looking forward to speaking to you the next time.

Mike Mack:
A pleasure, and again I want to give the final plug, one more time. When you go to 90minutebooks.com, and in that process, have that conversation with your team, Stuart. That's where I highly recommend any aspiring author out there, and it's a safe conversation. If you've got that book in your mind, and brain, and on paper, you won't be disappointed on that service. I'm sincere in that. The next book, and four after this, I would just always use your service because it's just that awesome, honestly. That's the final word. I don't want to make it as much about you, because I always admire not only giving us the opportunity to get a bit of profile for our books, and us as authors. But the service and price point is so reasonable, is kudos to you and your team again, and best wishes in 2020 and beyond. I've always got time to talk to you, Stuart, any time, so make it a great year.

Stuart Bell:
Fantastic, that's great. Thanks, Mike. And there we have it, another fantastic show. It's always such a pleasure catching up with Mike. We've got a good report, even though we don't get to speak as much as I'd like to. Really looking forward to getting him back on the show to talk about some of the details of how he's using it, day in and day out, but I'd highly recommend grabbing a copy of the books. There's links in the show notes. They're available on Amazon. Mike Mack, as you can see from this email as we release it. Mike Mack is M-A-C-K. Then head over to Amazon to check out the book, head over to the website to see what he's doing, and how he's using it, and how he's promoting the books in the day-to-day business framework.

But then also, it's well worth connecting on LinkedIn, because just a great resource to bounce ideas off of. He's always got time to, always makes time to answer as much as possible, questions that get presented. With that, we didn't talk much. It was on the notes I had here to refer back to, but we didn't talk that much about a Book Blueprint Scorecard. Layered throughout the episode that was referenced to, that we made to some of those mindsets. If you are thinking of either writing the book yourself, using that resource for production. If you are thinking about producing it all yourself, or you're thinking about coming to us in the normal way and following the process from start to finish, the Book Blueprint Scorecard is a great way of measuring your progress on those eight mindsets, to really create that most valuable asset that you use to engage and start those relationships, and move people towards a decision to do business with you.

So, that's over at bookblueprintscore.com. Then as always, once you're ready to get started, then head over to 90minutebooks.com, follow the get started links, and we will be here to help you get your book out there. Okay, with that, thank you everybody, and we will catch you in the next one.