In this episode we talk to Kevin Craig about his book The Professional Referral Solution and the surprising changes it has had on his business.

Written as a way to give people a benchmark understanding of how he built his real estate business, Kevin's book has lead to speaking engagements and requests for both group and individual coaching from other professionals.

As we head into 2017, Kevin talks about developing this additional stream of business further and reflects on the surprising opportunity his book helped create.

This is a great episode for anyone thinking about the benefits a 90-Minute Books might deliver for you and your business.

Kevin's book is also a great resource for anyone in sales looking for an alternative to cold calling. Grab a copy below.

 

Links:
The Professional Referral Solution

 

 

Transcript: Book More Show 018

Susan: Hey everyone. This is Susan Austin with the Book More show. With me is Stuart Bell. Hi, Stuart.

Stuart: Hi, Susan. How you doing?

Susan: I'm doing great, Stuart. Today we're super excited to have Kevin Craig with us. Welcome, Kevin.

Kevin: Hi, Susan. Hi, Stuart.

Susan: Kevin wrote his book with us, with the 90-Minute Books earlier this year and we wanted to check in with him and find out how it's going. Before we actually get into any of the results you've had with your book Kevin, let's take a moment and talk about your book.

Kevin: Okay.

Susan: What's the book? Who's it for? What problems does it help your readers solve?

Kevin: Well, a lot of questions there and I've got answers for all of those. It didn't even start off as a thought. I hadn't planned on writing a book. I don't fancy myself as an author. I'm a two fingered typist, so when it was first suggested to me that I put what I was doing into book format, I said "There is no possible way I could ever accomplish that. It would take me years." Immediately I was directed to you and 90-Minute Books by a gentleman who has used you several times and has been a very good friend and a very good mentor for me and he explained the process and how he got things going with his business by first starting with the book.

After speaking with you and having a better understand of actually how simple it is, I decided to put what my thoughts were down into book format, because I had spent so much time explaining to others what I do and how I do it, and everybody has asked for it to be in some type of a written format if I had any type of outline of my business. Talking with you and finding out how simple it was, I was able to get it down very simply into a book in a very short period of time and it's sent a lot of my business into a little bit of a different direction than what I had planned but very much identical to what my mentor told me would happen. It hasn't been a surprise that it went the way it did, but I was a little bit, I wasn't quite prepared for how quickly it would go and how easily it would be done.

Susan: Very good. What's the book Kevin?

Kevin: The book is called The Professional Referral Solution. I'm a real estate agent. I have a real estate team. We do traditional real estate but we just don't go about it in a very traditional way. We typically work through professional relationships and try to fill some very unique niches. Instead of doing business the way the typical agent does, which is chasing the next deal, the next transaction, the next property they can list or the next buyer they can put under contract, we work more with long term relationships and become the referral source for those that have contact with many other people. I basically built a system to do this that I've trained my team on, but many other agents would come to me over the last couple of years and say "Gosh, you guys have a team of nine and you're outproducing teams that are made up of 30 people. How is it you're able to do this? What type of system are you using for door knocking, phone calling, cold calls, farming?" I had to explain to them that we don't do that. We do this professional referral system.

That's when it became apparent that I needed to get something down into a format. I didn't plan on selling the book and becoming an author but I wanted to have something that I could basically hand off to people and say "Here. Read this. It will give you the background." Everything that I would normally spend a couple of hours, at least, going through explaining to people could all be in a book. I really did it save myself some time so I wasn't bogged down. I'm always happy to share what I do. Always happy to share in the culture of providing to others, but at the same time, I've still got to be able to run my business, so I didn't want to have a closed door attitude or turn people away. I wanted to be able to put something in their hands and say "Here. Read this. If you want to know more, come back."

That's exactly what happened. I don't know if you're ready to move on to what's gone on since I did the book, but I'll just keep talking unless you stop me.

Susan: Hang on a second. No, this is great. It's great. You're not the first author who has told us that I really didn't have any kind of huge vision for any kind of money making activity for my book. I wanted to ... I used to go meet with someone and sit down with coffee and I explained to them that it was just easier for me to get it down on paper so I could hand it out. I know quite a few authors that actually have done that, but I'm interested to hear where this is going because clearly you're hinting that it may have taken a different direction than even you expected.

Kevin: It did. Yes.

Susan: The book, was it written for other real estate agents?

Kevin: It was specifically written for real estate agents, but it actually applies to just about anybody in sales because the typical, I want to say, not it was the easy way out, but what everybody thinks of in sales is, it's a process of cold calls. It's, the calls you get at night when you're trying to have dinner with your family is somebody trying to sell you something. It's somebody knocking on your door, even if you've got a no soliciting sign that's certain that you're going to want to sign up for what they have. Too much of our business these days is done like that, where nobody wants to receive those calls. Nobody wants people knocking on their door. Nobody wants to have their mailbox filled up with flyers or find door hangers on their door knob and all that, but yet there's really not a lot of other systems out there that are being taught as to how to do business.

Most entry level sales people think that cold calling is the only way to go about doing business and I've actually just found another way to do it, which is much more enjoyable. Not necessarily easier. In some cases, it's actually more difficult and more time consuming but it's more rewarding and it plays out longer over the long haul instead of just working for a short term deal. That's what I felt was necessary to get down in writing so other people could see that there's other ways of doing business.

Handing that off to folks, some people use the 90-Minute Books as somewhat like a business card and here's a little bit about me and my program or my business or whatever and it'll teach you more about me. Some people are using it to promote other parts of their business. I was just doing it to initially pacify some of those that were just wanting to get information out of my head, so I put it out in advance in a very neat, tidy, professional looking format, which was the 90-Minute Book with a nice cover, nice graphic design that would be a real simple read. A lot of people are able to go read it one evening and then show up back for more information.

Stuart: I think that's a great point that you make about it. It helps the conversation along. It amplifies your message without you necessarily needing to be there to do that amplification at every stage. At least then when you're speaking to people after they've read it, an accessible read to introduce them to the subject, it's almost like the one on one of Kevin's system. Everyone is then coming with the same baseline. You don't need to spend a lot of the same time going over the very basic steps that, really, someone can get from a book and then speak to you more about it from a more informed point. That amplification point, the amplification of the code that you've cracked. It's a great way of sharing something with someone in a, as you say, an easy, accessible way that gives them something useful that they can take away and digest and then have a follow up conversation. Really, it makes much more of your time, which is, obviously there is only so much of it and you can have a more valuable conversation with them when they come back after the initial viewing.

Have the internal guys read it as well as external guys?

Kevin: Have the internal ... I'm sorry. The internal and external who?

Stuart: Have your team members, I'm guessing that they've read it as well.

Kevin: Yeah. Well, they've not only, they've read it, they've heard it. They've heard me talk about it and coach it. Of course, for the people that work with me, this is something that we live with every day, so it wasn't anything revolutionary for them, because that's the way that my whole team does business. Yes. Many of them did go read the book and others that came in, I gave them the book or I ordered quite a few of them to begin with and just kept them in a cabinet in my office. When people would come in wanting to take me to lunch or have an hour of my time, I'd say "Well, here. If you go read this at your leisure, it may answer a lot of your questions up front." Which it did and that was great.

In addition to that, it gave me some credibility that I wasn't really anticipating as an author and I don't see myself as an author, but other people would introduce me and say "This is Kevin Craig and he just wrote his first book and it's called The Professional Referral Solution." Immediately I would want to jump in and almost diminish that perception, that no, I'm not really an author. People started telling me "Shut up. You are. You did." "Go with it. Work with it. You did write a book." I said yeah, you know it wasn't what I ... I'm still thinking of people that write books as the ones that go lock their selves away in a cabin in the woods for six months with a typewriter and six months later they come out with some type of a manuscript that then they have to take to a publisher. They go through it and either accept it or reject it and you move from publisher to publisher trying to find somebody that will move your dream along. Eventually, some day you might be one of the few that gets it actually published.

I was surprised to find out that this is so much more simple than that. It was just a matter of getting my thoughts down on paper, which I already had anyways. I just basically made an outline for myself of the ideas that I wanted to cover and it was no different to me than giving a presentation that was maybe a little bit longer than normal. If I wanted to give maybe an hour or two hour presentation, I would make notes. I would then go back and I would put the notes in the correct order, know the things that I wanted to cover and then I would make sure that I had the kind of content to be able segue from point to point throughout my talk. Basically I prepared what I felt was going to be an hour to two hour speech and I'm very comfortable with doing that.

Then when Susan and I sat down to do the initial recording of it, basically I just went through my outline from beginning to end with a little bit of coaching from her and got it done from there. My fingers really never had to hit the keyboard of a computer except just to put together my notes that I went off of and heck, I could have just handwritten those if I had chosen to do so. I didn't have to spend six months in a cabin.

Susan: Right. How long did this process take, Kevin, start to finish? Do you recall?

Kevin: I would say there was a whole lot more time of me fixing to get ready than anything else. When it actually came time for me to sit down and put together the notes of what I wanted to cover in the book, I, realistically, I did that in a weekend. I took a plane trip to go visit some family and on the plane on the way there and the way back, I basically entered it into notes on my cell phone. Then when I got back, I transferred those notes into a word document on my laptop that I was able to spend a couple hours just sorting into the right order. Once I had that, I really, honestly, in all truthfulness, I probably had it done within three days. I'm not talking about spending full three days. I'm talking about spending maybe an hour or two each day. That may even be a stretch, too. It might not have even taken me that long.

Then it was just a matter of, you always want to second guess yourself. You always want to go back and tweak something. You never think it's quite right. I might need something more. I'm, I tend to be on the, to take on the Lee Iaccoca form of thinking that when you've got 80% of what you need and you can move forward with that 80%, you should go for it rather than wait for 100% because you may never get to 100% and the time that you waste in trying to get the other 20% may cause you to miss out on a lot of opportunities. Even though I never really felt like it was perfect, I still don't think it's perfect. Even though I didn't think it was perfect, we still went and moved forward with it and got it rolling and I'm glad we did because otherwise I'd still be fixing to get ready right now.

Stuart: You hit the nail on the head. Yeah.

Susan: We have a saying here at the 90-Minute Books. This may have been what Stuart wanted to chime in with it. You don't have to be a writer to be an author. It was Dan Sullivan that said that and it's so true. You do have to be some kind of guru behind the keyboard. If you have, if you can talk about your topic for an hour, you can become an author and it's valuable and helpful and more people should write books. I know I'm always like a hammer with a nail.

Stuart: That's the whole thing. The knowledge you've got in your head already is valuable to other people out here and all of the things that conspire against getting that knowledge in front of someone, thinking that the format has to perfect or the words have to be perfect. At the end of the day, we've all listened to podcasts that have had absolutely fantastic content but the quality has been a bit shaky. We've all read stuff that's really genuinely helped progress our business or progress our development. Perhaps the structure of it wasn't quite to our liking or the cover wasn't too our liking. We've eaten in restaurants where the main course was delicious but the starter was a little bit loopy. All of these things, understanding that the whole experience doesn't need to be perfect, but getting it out there in front of people where it can start the conversation is the, that's the main goal.

Exactly as he said, we're not talking about creating authors as such. We're talking about getting valuable messages in the hands of people with all of the benefits of being an author. This isn't about winning a literary prize. This is about winning substantial new business, engaging substantial numbers of new clients and helping a lot more people than you would be able otherwise, because again it amplifies your message. There, I was trying to take notes as we were revising, because I found myself falling back into listening mode rather than questioning and what you're saying. There's such good stuff buried in there.

That is one of the main points. People often get into an analysis paralysis or a concern that it needs to be perfect. Just as you said, there's a magic around having your name of the front of a book and other people perceive it to be, not so much more than it is, but there is definitely an awe around it. It has a greater bang than the initial buck that you might put into it. One of the downsides of that is people who are thinking about doing the, being on the other side of the fence, people who are thinking about writing also fall into the same trap as the readers do in so much as I can't do that because it would take months of being locked way. I can't do that because I need to know what all the formatting is. I need to know that every sentence is perfectly crafted, whereas, exactly as you've said, get out there. Start collecting feedback. Have it start making an impact. There is always opportunity to update and correct afterwards.

Kevin: Right, which I took advantage of later and I was glad because, of course, after I did my outline and a lot of it, I talked free style from the outline, I went back and looked and I saw that I used words inappropriately or I should have used a different word in a spot than I did or grammatically what I said didn't come out quite right. I did have the opportunity to go back and make corrections before the final product was published, so definitely appreciated that. There's a couple other benefits that came about as this, too, that I'd love to be able to discuss. One is, Susan, I need to wait for you to ask me where you want to take this.

Susan: No. Go for it. Go for it.

Kevin: Okay. Well, I'll tell my story and then you just jump in and ask questions wherever you feel. I wrote the book, and again I explained, to just be able to hand it off to folks to say "Here, you don't need to take me to lunch, this is what I did."

If you're familiar with the DiSC Profile System, the D-I-S and C, it's a personality test that's very common in the business world. I'm a high I and also D, which means I'm a driver but I'm also very concerned about how I'm perceived by people. I tend, I'm told quite often, that I'm very concerned about how others perceive me and so often I tell too much. I spend too much time telling the backstory, which you may find on this podcast that Kevin rambled way too much about backstory. In the book I'm able to put in the backstory. I'm able to explain the backstory as to how I got to where I was, what my background was, was led me to this point to be able to come up with a different process that would help real estate people in sales. It explains a lot of that there.

Then, from that, I had people that would take the book and then come back and say "Well, are you going to be teaching this because this is really, really great but we can tell you have, there's more." Obviously, when you put something down about a whole business model into a book, I wasn't trying to take all of my blueprints for my business and provide them to everybody for nine bucks on Amazon. What I was wanting to do was give them enough to answer their questions as to how this basically works and let them go out and try it on their own. What I ended up getting was almost everybody that I gave the book to came back and said "Well, now we'd like to come to a class where you actually teach it." I said "Well, I hadn't really planned on that." It was supposed, the end was supposed to be having the book so that it would pacify everybody with enough information to go start it on their own but there became enough of a demand for me to teach it.  I offered to have a class on The Professional Referral Solution and I exceeded the capacity of the room that we had reserved to do it and it ended up having to have a follow up class for those that couldn't fit and we went "Wow. People are starving for this kind of information." We didn't even realize that.

From that, I had other people say "Well, I can find a bigger room where you can get more people." "I know some people that missed out on the first class you had. Can we do another class or a third class?" I had a call from, well, I've now taught classes, which again was not in the plans whatsoever, but I've now taught classes in, I want to say maybe five different states and including, I had an all expense paid trip to Honolulu to go teach in Honolulu and Maui over the summer to come teach this book. They called and said "Hey, if you'll come talk about this, we'll pay your airfare and your hotel accommodations." Well, who is going to pass up on something like that? I took my wife with me and we basically got a vacation out of it for me to go teach this and from each one of those classes.

Stuart: The book is, rather than locking yourself away in a cabin for six months before, you've actually done it the other way around. You've written the book and now it's resulted in time on the beach with your wife.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's right. That's right. It turned into something more than what I'd thought, so now, I'm actually able to get in front of people and explain the book, but what people started telling me, because I would get up and I would go through basically the whole book format in one of my classes. It was a three hour class and two hours of it are talking about the same stuff that's in the book. Well then people were telling me "Look, what you put in the book, the whole backstory in the book is enough. We don't need to know the backstory again, because we've read that. Now you can fast forward and get into more of the meat and potatoes about how you do this." The book is like the appetizer and then the main course has been the teaching or seminar circuit where I've been able to come in and teach some of these classes. I think I've done about 12 classes now in all these different states.

Stuart: That's fantastic.

Kevin: Then, almost as dessert, which wasn't planned. I never planned on making a dime from any of this. That wasn't the intention, but I've had people come to me afterwards and say "I would like to pay you to coach me. If you want to coach me what you've got in the book and what you've taught in the seminar, I'm willing to pay. I didn't want to create another job for myself and now start coaching people and I wasn't looking to increase my work load, but what I've been able to do is take one day of the week and set it aside and say "During this day of the week, which happens to be Wednesdays, I'm going to do coaching. I'm going to coach no more than five students at a time." I've got time blocks set out in 45 minutes increments to be able to coach five people and now I've got people paying me a fairly substantial amount of money each month in order to be coached one on one with them and teach them how they can go about and develop the system.

I've just made it a point that I don't coach people in my hometown that are going to be competing head to head with other people on my team, because that wouldn't' be quite right to take it away from my own team members. Places like Colorado and Honolulu and Las Vegas, I've got people there that I'm coaching that there is going to be no crossing of paths. We're not going to be fighting over the same business or growling over the same bones. I'm more than happy to teach them what I know and I can still make some money doing it without actually having to operate there.

I'm especially excited about a young man that I'm coaching right now in Honolulu, which is so sharp. He's had a lot of professional coaches. In fact, he currently has a professional business coach, but he said the professional business coaches coach him more on mindset and attitude and it's not necessarily how to go, instructional, this is how you attack and generate the business and that's what I can do for him and because I'm teaching him basically to do exactly what I have done, just in a whole different state on a whole different island, it's actually rewarding for me, too. I'm really, really excited about working with this guy.

Then, I can control it. I can coach when I want and I can not coach when I want. I just try to keep it down to Wednesdays. Then, in addition to that, because of the fact that I'm coaching and because of the fact that I'm teaching and the fact that I am now recognized as an author, I've been invited to participate in so many things that I never would have dreamed that I would be invited to attend. It's like I suddenly hit everybody's radar and I've been asked to participate in a Morning Podcast talk shows regarding real estate. I've had several interviews, I've been invited to speak on panels.

In fact, there's one that's coming up here in a few weeks called Arizona's Top 100, which is the top 100 agents in the state that are being recognized and they named me, partially because of the amount of business I do. Again, I really wasn't on anybody's radar until I started talking about some of this. Now, they've ranked me, I think, as number 11 and I'm going to be sitting on one of their expert panels and that just helps you get on the radar for other things. Even though being on a radar, being on a panel, being recognized doesn't generate income in and of itself, it creates other opportunities.

Again, I'm all about the relationships and all about the other opportunities. If I can get in be able to talk with somebody because they know my name and they've heard of me and maybe they've seen the book or they've heard of the book. It's much easier to get in in front of them and now generate more business, which does result in additional revenue that I wouldn't have had otherwise. I just think it's created a lot of opportunities and if I played connect the dots or did like we talked earlier before the podcast about family tree type stuff on a whole separate conversation. Let's say I made a little family tree of all the business that I'm doing and I traced it all the way back to the roots, a lot of it I can trace right back to the book. The book is what got everything started and opened doors for me that's led off into different opportunities.

Susan: I love this.

Kevin: I've got the plan now for book number two, which I've invited two other people to be involved with me. I talked to Susan and said "I don't know if you've ever done a three person book before but I've got a new type of business that's got three specific segments to it and each, there's a person that really specializes in each segment. Could we put this together and do a book together as three individuals rather than as one individual?" Susan is helping me through how to do that. Two of the three of us have got our outlines prepared and we're ready to move forward because then, once again, it makes us the subject matter experts in that field and undoubtedly, it will open up additional doors. None of us plan to make money from the book. It's just designed to be able to say "Here's what we do. Here's what we've learned." Give us credibility and open additional doors that will generate more business for us.

Then, which I haven't even talked to Susan about.

Susan: Hang on. Hang on. Hold that thought.

Kevin: Slow me down. Like I said, I'll get going.

Stuart: I'm thinking we've got a whole series here.

Susan: Yeah. Yeah. I love this. You know what's really, really awesome about everything you just said Kevin? You only got the book done over the summer and here it is the fall. It's not like this is some kind of three year outcome. This is months worth of outcome. I can't imagine if we talk to you a year from now what you're going to have accomplished.

Kevin: Right. On a scale of one to ten, realistically, and I'm spilling secrets here. The effort I really put into doing the book was probably about a four or a five. The results of what I got out of it is probably closer to eight to nine. If you look at the effort to reward ratio, I don't know why anybody wouldn't really consider doing this, because too often you think of it the other way around. I'm going to put a level of ten effort into it and I might get a two out of it. This is the opposite. This is you put, I'm not saying you do a part way job or slack through doing the book, but it was not as difficult as I thought. What I thought was going to be difficult was opening the doors. The book opened the doors. Opening the doors became much easier than what I had anticipated.

Stuart: This is such a fantastic story.

Susan: Love it.

Stuart: You can hear it in your voice as you're talking, the unexpected nature of the outcomes of the business that's come from it has been one of the best, most unexpected surprises of doing it, but I think it's worth ... We're running towards time because I think we definitely need to have a follow up show in the not too distance future because I'm sure, if anyone is like me, people are taking notes and desperate for the rest of some of the detail behind the story.

One of the things I wanted to say before we did run out of time is, I think your level of authenticity absolutely comes through just in the conversation that we've had now and what you started by doing was not going into this with a financial objective. It wasn't a, Dean talks about the cheese and whiskers type approach of, if on the one hand you might be trying to offer someone something, then on the other hand, you're always ready to pounce. That wasn't even a thought.

You were just trying to share valuable information with people and out of that, I steal Gary Vaynerchuk's line. Jump, jump, jump, right hook. The give, give, give has then turned into something, but you went into it wanting to give first and I think that's a good thing for people to remember. The reason this has been, or one of the main reasons this has been so successful is because it comes from a very authentic place of wanting to give the information first. Even if nothing came from the book at all, you were more than happy to share the very best information that you had within the scope of the book and the pages and the subject, but share the very best information with people. From that, people have resonated with that message, really appreciated what you've put out there and then things have developed afterwards. I know you said-

Kevin: Very well said.  That's good.

Stuart: I know you said it was a lower than, perhaps, expected level of effort, but I think your authenticity behind that message is the thing that's really come through and Kudos where it's due. I think that was a, intentional or not, that was an exceptionally valuable thing that you put out there and that's turned into something bigger than it started.

Kevin: Exactly.

Susan: I want to point out, I just checked Kevin's book. It's 48 pages. Has anyone ever asked you how long, how big your book is when you-

Kevin: No. I feel compelled to tell them and in some cases I say, the book we're talking about here, I'm not talking about sit down over a vacation and read the book. I'm talking about sit down over an evening and read the book. I said it's almost more of a pamphlet, but people are looking for that. I couldn't tell you, I'm a reader but the thing is, I get so distracted because of, I'm a high D. I'm moving all the time. I probably have, in my home, maybe five books in different rooms where I've made it through the first couple of chapters in each book and then something happens and I get sidetracked and I'm off to another book or somebody mentions a book and I'm off getting that one. I've got this book collection that's got all the second chapter pages folded and I can never get through.

If somebody writes something that it's concise and I can get through it in an hour sitting down for an easy read and it at least gives me what I need to know the background. Yeah, it's not as fluffy as a novel or whatever but you can at least get the basic information out of it. I know a lot, I can almost guarantee you, more people have finished my book than most other books that they set out the read.

Stuart: Do you know this is funny? It's Thursday now as we record, so the podcast episode that Betsy and I recorded on Monday just gone is a Q and A answering some of these exact questions. One of the points we touched upon is someone was asking about book length, how long does it need to be and if there's a poster child for how effective something like a 90-Minute Book can be, I think Kevin is the new poster child for it, because what people want is the information. The answer, whether the answer was one page long or 51 pages long. It's authentically delivering the answer as comprehensively as possible so people get value from it and then have an appetite to find out more. That's exactly what you've articulated in the size of the book and the content of the book you've got.

Kevin: Well thanks. Very well said.

Susan: Kevin, where can they get a copy of your book if they would like to see it?

Kevin: On Amazon.com The Professional Referral Solution is listed there. I think it's $7.99. Again, we're not running to the bank with checks for the book. Then, also our website, which is s4, the letter S the number four, grouprealestate.com has got a tab on it where they can go and order up the book or say if they're interested in attending a seminar or ... By the way, I haven't charged anything for the seminars. The seminars have all been free for anybody that wants to come.

The coaching is a little bit different because, of course, it's my time sitting down one on one and I have to research some of their business, so I do charge for the coaching, but there was really no end game for this to ever generate any type of revenue. It was only to be able to work from a position of contribution, as Stuart said. We felt that if we're contributing and helping others then eventually the money will come. That's what always seems to happen. It's like you do these little things to help somebody else and all of the sudden something drops into your lap that's a bigger opportunity that you may not have got otherwise had you not been working from a position of contribution. We never set out to try to work as let's number one go after the money. That just never seems to pan out.

Susan: Very good. For those that are listening, you can go to the professionalreferralsolutionbook.com and download a copy of Kevin's book. Theprofessionalreferralsolutionbook.com.

Stuart: I'll make sure I put notes.

Kevin: Thank you very much for filling that one in Susan.

Stuart: I'll make sure we put links for people as well in the show notes, so head across to 90minutebooks.com/podcast and we'll make sure that we've got links to all of Kevin's stuff here. I think if you're happy, we've just blown past the 30 minutes and honestly, I could go for another hour without running out of things to talk about. If you're up for it in the not too distant future, it'd be great to have you back on and then fill in some of the gaps. If people have got questions, they can feel free to shoot them in and we'll, if Kevin's got time, we'll get him back on and answer some of those questions and give people a bit more.

Kevin: I'd be honored. I would love to do that.

Susan: I'd love it, too. We didn't actually vet Kevin, to be honest. We just said "Hey got some time." We didn't, I didn't know he was all up to this great stuff, so for all I know, you were going to get on here, Kevin, and go "Yeah, it's been okay." We didn't know you had all these big results.

Kevin: No. Here's the thing is, I'm not a paid endorser and I don't, I'm not into all that. I'm just a businessman like everybody else and if something doesn't work for me, I'm certainly not the type that's going to get onto a podcast and talk about it or promote it or fluff or make stuff up. I'm just telling it like it is.

Susan: Yep. Love it. Thank you so much, Kevin. This has been so ... Having these real world examples of how people are using these books. Again, I would think that you could eventually had, if you wanted to go in that direction, do group coaching. Do you know what I mean?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

Susan: Instead of the one on one because a lot of the concepts are the same. I could see where if you wanted to make this a stand alone business, you've got the legs for it, if you wanted to. It doesn't sound like you want to but you could.

Kevin: Yeah, and I do have one of my coaches now is basically saying, "Okay, now it just becomes a matter of Kevin, what do you want? What do you want to do because you've got all of these different opportunities at your fingertips. You just have to decide what you want, which way you want to go." Quite honestly, that's a little bit about what I'm struggling with right now is figuring out where do I want to take this from here. The nice thing is, I've got the options to chose where before the book, I was really just going down one path and I only had the option of that one path.

Susan: Yep. Love it. Awesome Kevin. I look forward to helping you with book number two. Let me just do a plug for hat real quick. We help the authors if you're stuck, if you're listening to this and you're like "I don't know what book I should write. I could do this." A lot of authors come to us and they're like "I have five options." or "I don't know what I should write on." That's part of what we specialize in, is helping authors write what could be the most, the biggest bang for their buck. The book that's going to make the biggest difference in their business. The book that's going to help them make the next breakthrough for their business. That's part of our sort of unique ability. If you're stuck, jump on a call with one of us and let's see if we can get you unstuck.

Stuart: That's fantastic.

Susan: All right.

Stuart: Kevin, thanks very much for your time. I think people will get a lot out of this. We'll make sure that all of your stuff is linked up in the show notes to make sure that people can follow the story and look forward to having you on next time.

Kevin: Okay and I would love to, Susan could you do me a favor and maybe, you've got my number. Could you give me a call back as soon as we let Stuart go because I wanted to run something else by you.

Susan: Love it.

Kevin: This is much larger scale but, I don't know, everything has gone so well with this that I thought, let me run it by you first to see what your thoughts are because this could maybe help you guys go in a bit of a different direction, too.

Susan: Stayed tune for the next best big thing from Kevin. All right. That sounds fabulous.

Stuart: Fantastic. I'll tell you what, I'll end the recording here so Will can edit it. One else who is listening in will have to wait for the next show to hear what happens.

Susan: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Stuart: Thanks guys. Check out the show notes at 90minutebooks.com/podcast. Kevin thanks for your time. Susan, pleasure as always. We'll catch everyone next time.