Transcript: Book More Show 079
Stuart: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Book More Show. It's Stuart here with Betsey Vaughn. Betsey, how are you doing?
Betsey: I'm fantastic. Happy Friday.
Stuart: Happy Friday. Happy Easter. Easter Friday or Good Friday? Good Friday.
Betsey: Good Friday, yeah.
Stuart: Okay. Just to show you my heathen nature, and forgetting the actual official name of the holiday.
Betsey: Wait a minute. You didn't get a text from your mom asking what time you were going to church today?
Stuart: I didn't. I didn't. In fact, I probably owe my parents a call because I think two weeks have gone since I last called them, which is pretty bad.
Stuart: It's weird. So, as I'm still trying to get used to, A, the time difference, being in the UK and dealing with the US for five years, and dealing with that five-hour difference backwards. My mind just automatically corrects for it.
I always remember in that I could go in deeper history now, but in my parents' kitchen, when I was growing up as a kid, they had a clock, like a novelty clock thing that went backwards instead of forwards, like an analog clock with hands, but it went backwards instead of forwards. And the weird thing was, you immediately got used to that, or pretty much immediately got used to it, and could read it straight away. But then, if there was another clock in the kitchen that read forwards, that always took a minute or two to calculate for some reason. It's almost like contextually having your mind switched. Yeah.
Stuart: The set-up that I've got here, at the office at the house, is the same as the set-up 'cause I brought all my stuff across, obviously, and set it up in pretty much the same way. So it's almost like contextually my mind, whenever I'm calculating time, I'm minusing five hours from the numbers I read on the screen, as opposed to now I have to add five hours.
Betsey: Add five hours.
Stuart: To think about what the time actually is in the UK if I want to speak to the family. And invariably then it gets to sort of the late afternoon here, and then it's starting to get too late there. So, anyway, all to say is that it's strange how your mind kind of really gets used to doing things one way, and then we jump in to doing it a different way.
Betsey: That is so true. That happens.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, sorry that was really a random start for the show.
Betsey: That's okay. I think they've come to expect it. There's always something random.
Stuart: And this is even with spending 10 minutes before we hit record to get all of the random stuff out of the way.
Betsey: We really should just record all of our conversations. I keep saying this. And then, there's got to be some kind of valuable information in our conversations.
Stuart: Like an after dark show.
Stuart: There would be a lot of sifting through. Today, just before we started recording, we were looking at Nigerian hands-free headsets for phones, which was a mean value, but they're from years and years ago. So, if anyone's not driving whilst listening to this, and a bit of a distraction. Yeah, yeah, Google that.
So, down to business.
Betsey: Yeah, what are we going to talk about today?
Stuart: Well, today, we are going to talk about using other things to create the book. So, this is something that we've talked about on the show before, but it still comes up many, many times in the conversations that you and I have with people. The classic example is that someone has a webinar recorded or a live event that they've got recorded, and they'll be using that currently in their funnel as part of a campaign, and then they just want to repurpose that as a book.
So we'll talk about the pros and cons and counterfeits? Fine. Pros and cons of that. I think benefits was going in there somewhere. Pros and counterfeits of that, and what might be a better way of thinking about it.
But actually it ties in pretty well with last week's show as you're listening to this. Last week we had Jonathan Schultheiss, and talked about some of the things that he was doing. And their funnel, their campaign, that they've got set up that refers to many different assets that they've already got created. And this ties in quite nicely with that because Jonathan, if you remember, has other books already, and the recording material. But rather than just trying to repurpose that for the latest books that they wrote, FOCUSED, we've recorded something fit for purpose from scratch but then use all of those other elements in part of their follow up. So that I think is what we're going to talk about today.
Betsey: That was a great podcast. So if anybody hasn't listened to that one, that was good. Jonathan has great energy. If you can't be inspired by the things that he's doing, and has done. When I have a conversation with Jonathan, he just kind of gets me pumped up, you know?
Stuart: Right, yeah.
Betsey: And he doesn't even realizes he's doing it, you know?
Stuart: Yeah. That enthusiasm for both his subject and why he's created it in the way that he engaged people, that enthusiasm really comes across, and the episodes that we do with authors, are really some of my favorite, just because the enthusiasm, and the kind of passion that people bring to it. And then, the results that they get, and in some ways quite unexpected. It really kind of underlines the purpose of what we're doing in helping people get these things out there.
Stuart: Why don't we start? So we talked about this a couple of days ago, when we were thinking about what we were recording this week. Without naming names, but you had the situation where you were talking with someone about exactly this situation.
Stuart: Do you want to give a bit of background there hat as the example?
Betsey: Yeah, this week, specifically, we have a gentleman that was looking. He came onboard, and so he says he has a webinar series that he has done, and really was kind of pushing to use that to create his book. And he said, "Oh, I will transcribe it, and then we can just use that." And, thankfully, we ended up going in a different direction because, you know, he said, "The webinar is exactly how the flow of how I want the book to go," which is fantastic because I will say, most of the time, that's not the case. Most of the time it's like, "Here, I've done this webinar," or, "Here I've done this stage presentation, and can you just fix it, and make it all kind of slow?" And so then, it becomes a lot of work on everybody's part, you know.
So, with him, like I know this is the subjects, but I want do it. We ended up talking about it, and just very few. And we say this a lot. Very few people speak in which a manner, when they're recording so that it can go into a book. You know, most people don't speak like that. When you're doing a webinar or a stage presentation, you're speaking differently, first of all, to your audience. And that's the biggest thing, and I think they don't listen till they're transcribing, and go, "Ooh, wait a minute. This is, you know, I'm pointing at the stage or I'm pointing at the screen, and I'm kind of nodding my head at Joe over here in the front row, okay?" you know. And so, I think that's where, you know, until once we transcribe, and kind of go through it and I think even listening to it. Because sometimes, with this webinar, I watched it and there's a lot of great information. And so, what I was able to pull from this, specifically, was sort of the topics that he wants to talk about.
This one happened to be beneficial because he is very organized in his thoughts, and a bit of, you know, a perfectionist, if you will. So, stop. Okay. So, let me say that.
So, there was some value to it. And from this end. I mean, there's a lot of value and I know we're going to get to this, you know, sort of an after fact, or as a marketing, you know, ideas and stuff. We can use those things.
So, but I did end up talking to him, and we were able say, "Hey, let's go this. Let's use our process, but we'll use your webinar as a guide, and then we don't have to worry about so much, you know, clean up, if you will."
Stuart: So, let us dive into the process a little bit because I think that is going to set some context for why we, nine times out of ten, suggest to people more than that. Ten times out of ten, suggest that people don't just try and use something that's created for another purpose.
So, when we're looking at the 90-minute book process, whether you're dealing with us, or whether you're using the framework to do it yourselves, it's 30 minutes to outline, and get the chapter structure. So the title, what it's about, why people should raise their hand in the first place, the outline, which is really the milestones or the building blocks that lead people towards the back cover, and the call to action or the next step. And there's lots of other podcasts where we've gotten deep into those elements, specifically.
But, when we look in the time to create that, the 90 minutes, it's 30 minutes outlining, and then 60 minutes to record the content. Just as you said, the content is then recorded, fit for purpose. It's recorded in a way that we know it's going into a book, that we're not relying on prompts behind us on the stage, or the interaction, or body language, or non-verbal queues that always come out when you're talking in front of if it's just one person.
So, the time and kind of overhead of creating something that's fit for purpose is 90 minutes. Now, the 30 minutes is pretty much unavoidable anyway, because we'll need to outline with people, regardless of whether they're trying to use something else or recording fresh. So, really, we're down to 60 minutes’ worth of effort now.
And the likelihood of having something transcribed, and then it taking less than 60 minutes’ worth of your time to either pull out the bits that aren't relevant, or chop and change bits if the order isn't quite fit for purpose, or go through and pull out the references that you're making to things that are happening on the stage that aren't happening as it's being read. The likelihood of being able to do that in less than 60 minutes, I would say is zero. Because-
Betsey: Oh, yeah.
Stuart: No matter how close you think it is, it's going to take at least 60 minutes’ worth of time just to even re-familiarize yourself with it, so that the extent that you can then go through and chop it up.
And that's not even taking into any consideration the kind of editing and, grammar, and language, and contacts that you'll, you know, we have to do as well.
So, we're pretty like I said, I think it's 100% of the time, when we'll go back to people and suggest that they don't do it. There's one or two occasions where people have then gone on to do it. And it does take more time, but people are happy.
Betsey: And people don't realize. I mean, I think people think, "Oh, I can transcribe it, and I'll just send it to you, and you'll fix it." But the reality is that, I mean, we can't. I mean, we could. But you don't want to pay us to do that, you know, because it could get very pricey very fast.
Stuart: No, right.
Betsey: And it's the way people speak, we don't know what's the most important thing that needs to stay in there, you know.
Stuart: But I think that's the most important thing. And the thing that can't magically be fixed by just passing the problem to someone else. We can fix all of the grammar stuff and the language.
Betsey: Grammar, yes.
Stuart: And even to a certain degree, the flow, to a certain degree. But you're right. It starts once you're dealing with an import, a base file that's less fit for purpose, all of that stuff. It gets more expensive because it's more time consuming.
But the thing, just as you said, that we absolutely can't fix is knowing which points are important. And knowing where the emphasis needs to be, and knowing what particular part of the journey, or the narrative, kind of leads through to the call to action.
So, that's in it that someone else, whether it's us or anyone, can't fix without input from you. And that same amount of input is better spent just taking the 60 minutes to rerecord something that's absolutely fit for purpose, and correct from the start, so that you can spend all of those extra units of energy that you would have to spend answering questions, just to try and fix something. It could be better spent utilizing that asset, that webinar, that podcast or presentation from stage. Those units could be better spent building that into a funnel, and a follow-up sequence, rather than just trying to repurpose it just for the sake of repurposing it.
And I think everyone does think that it's oh, I think the majority of people suggest it because they think it's quicker, because they think they've done an amount of work to get this to a point that it's a good presentation. And then, not necessarily thinking about how much effort is or not realizing how much effort is in the tweaking, because all of that little tweaking is where all of the time gets sucked up.
And instead, creating something fresh, using all of the same building blocks. So, just as you have this week, not throwing away that work, or not making the most of that work, but taking all that work that's done to outline, and bring together a great presentation. But just taking the time to record it so that it's fit for purposing in the context is a much better way.
Betsey: Yeah, I think. And, yeah. And, thankfully, you know what? I think people sort of rely on our expertise to say, "Oh, okay. I won't do that."
But we have had a few that have sort of pushed a little bit, you know, and that's the way we ended up going. Not just sure that it's so great, you know. And not that it's not valuable, because it is. But, in the end, they saw themselves doing a lot more work to it than, you know, again, just that what is valuable, what's not, what can stay, and what can go? And if they say that, you know. And nobody's ever said, "Hey, you were right." I mean, that would be nice if they don't have to because I'm, you know?
Stuart: Right. It's the same cost-
Stuart: Yeah. It's the same cost fallacy of people who kind of just took themselves into that way of doing things. Then getting through to the end, and kind of force through it. The only way is three type thing of doing the work to get it completed. Because, otherwise, then you are kind of three or four hours sunk into a project that could have been done in 60 minutes a different way.
And those ones, I can think of two or three, particularly, that spring to mind of ones that have done that. And the end product is great. I mean, it's definitely not the case where it's you end up with something bad. You end up with something just as good. It's just that it take five times longer, rather than the quicker way of doing it.
Betsey: And that's the thing about this process. It shouldn't. You know, it really should take that 90 minutes, you know. There should be very little time, you know, in doing this process. It doesn't need to be that, so I'm sort of, of the mindset if I don't have to do the extra work, let's not, you know. There's something else to do with that three to five hours of time that we had to spend, you know.
Stuart: Yeah. I think, exactly. You said the experience that we've got of now having done over 500 books, and doing them in all sorts of different ways, knowing what's the most effective use of your time. Your time, as in the customer's time, not me and you time. Knowing what works best, it's good to be able to in the early days, and in the two or three examples I'm thinking of, are older books rather than more recent books. So, being able to push back a little more robustly, and saying, "Hey, listen. We have done a number of these in the past, and we know where there's a problem. Not that the end product isn't great, but those units of energy that you'll have to spend doing it are best spent elsewhere."
So, let's talk about that a little bit then, and what the benefits are if you do have something that exists already. So I think there's two things that spring to mind for me. One of them is the amount of work that you've done already to position it, to get it set up, to get your framework clear in your mind.
And then, the second one is using the asset in other ways. We talked about this, I think it was last time you and I spoke a couple of shows ago, where we were talking about reusing other assets, and building, creating this army of individual soldiers, of individual assets, that we can bring together into the campaigns that achieve different goals.
So, looking at that first bit then, the benefit of already having done something, because it helps inform the 30-minute stage of the process, the outlining stage of the process. The example I always come back to is kind of our examples of either the book blueprint framework, or the framework on the coaching side of the business that we have.
Stuart: So, those two things are frameworks that are outlined. The flow of them, and how they work to create a book, or how they work to assess a business, are very clear in our minds. So we know that, as the process flows through those particular frameworks, it's kind of linear. It goes from the beginning and the start of things that you need to know.
So, picking this thing in the sense of a book, picking a single target market, knowing that the title is the thing that gets people's attention in the first place, regardless of the content at all. Knowing that, again, regardless of the content, we want to move people towards the next step. Understanding that we want to write something that's engaging, a bit quick to digest, and then present people with the opportunity to learn more afterwards. And then start looking at the chapters, and how that conversation flows, answering the question that's presented by the all the promise of the answer that by the title, three-some chapters that are those milestones towards the back of the copy, and the elements after that.
So, knowing that's the case, having presented that in several scenarios, in several different ways in the past, that work, when we're thinking about a book to engage with a particular audience, we know the underlining framework. And the same goes for people who have webinars and presentations. Typically speaking, that's around a framework of their own that's pretty strong in their mind, that they know the journey from the title of the presentation through to the promise of the outcome, which is the next steps, and usually from a webinar often, so it makes them stage that's an offer to join a program. They know what the questions are that typically come up. They know what the problems are that people have. They know where in the journey a customer of theirs is, whether they're a kind of someone brand new at the beginning of the process, thinking about it. This is a real high-level type of problem that they're trying to solve, or whether this is very detailed, and it's something that only like a seasoned investor. A problem that a seasoned investor would come across, rather than someone looking for some basic financial literacy-type of information.
So, all of these questions that you've had to answer in order to create the presentation are, broadly speaking, the same questions that you need to answer to create a great book that will engage people in the same way.
So, I think people who have gone through that process are at the advantage, because they know a lot of the answers to the questions that we're asking. So, when we're looking for a title, they already know the language that engages their customers. Talk a lot about the starting with a word cloud of what the language that people use as they're thinking about the problem while they're trying to resolve an issue.
There's certain phrases and terms, the connection between those terms, whether it's terms in that language sits on the kind of like journey of understanding from someone just coming at the beginning to somebody who's relatively educated on the subject.
So, all of that, you've gone through already, knowing what their journey is. So what's the next step, not what is the step 10 steps from now? From the book, we rarely suggest that the best answer is come and join us for a very big high-level program. It's the small next step. What's an easy way to get started, and move people along?
Again, case by case, that might vary depending on where it sits in the funnel. But all of these things are questions that you know the answer to, and you've got an advantage over somebody who's just coming into the program knowing that they want to buy a book, because a book is a great way of generating leads. So I don't find invisible prospects, but they don't necessarily know it's like the single-target market, while I want to attract all of the customers in this area, rather than trying to attract a particular subset often that you can engage in that conversation.
So, I think all of those things, for someone who has got something created already, puts them at a huge advantage. And again, whether you're doing this for those, and you're answering the questions that we're asking you, or whether you're trying to do it yourself, and you're using the book blueprint school card, there's the framework to create your own outline, then having all of this knowledge you've already gone through, you've already done the hard work of thinking about the answers already. It's just you've created something in a different context. Now we're talking about creating something in the context of the book. And those contexts are slightly different.
Betsey: Yeah. I'm just thinking of something you said just jarred my mind, and now I've lost it.
So, I wonder about people If you have done something, and I go back to this case, but we've also had cases where people have had things, and I had it a nice way. There's not organized thought, if you will.
Betsey: You know. So, they think that there's like a nice flow here, and they're answering all the right questions, and whatnot. But you know, I think that's what people don't necessarily see. Like they think, "Oh, this all this great information can go into a book." But it's not organized in a way in which it would or could, you know, without it being a bigger deal to do the work.
Stuart: Yeah. That's a good point, actually, because we are kind of going on the assumption that the webinar or the from-the-stage presentation that you have is a good presentation that follows sort of the logic that we talk about.
But you're right. Some aren't necessarily like that, and there's just some unformed thoughts on the subject. So, there's information, but there's not necessarily structure.
Betsey: Right. And it might work if you're on stage, and you've got charts, and a PowerPoint behind you and, you know, when you're talking about those things. But I think, you know. And it somehow it might work. Or maybe people believe their stage presentation going, "I have no idea what that person's talking about."
But yeah. So we've seen some of those, you know. We've seen some of those, and they're just like sort of a hot mess, if you will.
Stuart: A hot mess, yeah. So that's saying that there's a good opportunity to get improvements on both sides. And it's always difficult, and maybe slightly out of scope for us to say, "Yeah. This is nonsense. It doesn't make any sense."
Betsey: Yeah, yeah. And we would never say that.
Betsey: We're just, "Nah, we're just going to record it."
Stuart: And then, going to see that recording process, and the outlining process, particularly, there's an opportunity to tying up, the presentation.
Betsey: Absolutely. That's what I mean, what a great resource that they didn't even know they were going to have in the end, yeah. Yeah.
Stuart: So when we think about the chapter outline, and this is something that maybe gets lost a little bit, or it's not the main point that people take away from the process that we guide people through. So titles, because we talk so much about the thing that gets people to raise their hand. There's a lot of awareness of the importance of that, and the difference between a kind of generic title that doesn't necessarily guide people in a particular direction, and the title that kind of does what it says on the tin. The kind of naming and claiming all the how-to type title, which is very obvious.
So, most people get that. But the chapter outline, I think, is maybe not picked up on quite so much. So let's say that you do have a presentation that isn't quite as structured as it could be. It's all over the place a little bit. It doesn't have the kind of flow from the beginning setting the scene of the problem through words that provide the answers. But importantly through to a close, that it guides people to an easy next step.
Imagine that you've ripped out the rest of the pages of the book. You just had the cover, the back cover, and the table of contents. Now really, what most people would want, knowing that these books aren't being written for entertainment, the product isn't the book. The product is the service that's being offered at the end of it.
So, most people, knowing that they're trying to solve a problem or get to another place, get to another outcome, then the majority of people, I think, would be perfectly happy in getting a copy of the book, and just kind of through osmosis kind of touch that front cover, and touch the back cover, and have their eyes kind of trace over the chapter headings. And then, there's just enough relevant words there, they're given the confidence that they're going in the right direction, and the call to action is the right next step for them, and then they just move on.
I don't think that anyone is really reading books like this for education or for entertainment. They're really reading them in order to get to the next step. Now, if that next step is a specific outcome that they can do, so say for example, like the email mastery book that we've written internally, and even the 90-minute book itself, there's specific steps in there that you can take. But really, the purpose is to move people to the next step, that you are going in the right direction, that there's a way of doing this. You're writing a book in 90 minutes, and our suggestion is come work with us.
But if you haven't done that, then you could also go to the book reference school card and go into your own system. It's not the people who read in those books to be entertained.
So that chapter structure, the chapter outline, the way that those individual four or five words of a chapter title move people through, if you can get to the stage where that makes sense, where someone can understand the journey, get some knowledge almost just from those couple of words, because there's a couple of kind of like big rock milestones that clearly take people from, again, thinking about the book blueprint school card, it's choosing a specific target market to work with. It's picking the title of the book. It's picking the back cover. It's doing the outline. It's leading people through step-by-step. So, even if you just look at the scorecard headings. Even without anything else, writing any more words, that would give you either A, an understanding that you're going in the right direction, or B, it would give you enough words that you could kind of dive in, and follow up yourself.
So, translating that back then to the webinar or the presentation that you've got, if your webinar is all over the place, and doesn't follow that structure. If you're jumping about, even if the content is good, there's the opportunity to feed that back in, and maybe rerecord it or restructure it so the presentation is more valuable than it was beforehand.
Betsey: Absolute amen after that. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing I'll just catch on real fast. I don't want to just start diving into it. But, you know, sometimes people don't realize how salesy, you know, the presentations can be, and how-
Betsey: That, I've seen probably more than anything. You know, they can be very salesy, and sound like they're just constantly pitching something versus, you know, educating them on what they have. And so, that translates in a book, you know?
Stuart: Even more so.
Stuart: It's more so. Because when you're onstage, and this goes back to the whole purpose of this conversation is the fit for purpose nature of what you're doing. It's not we need to do something like this or something like that before we should just do this. That kind of logical fallacy of anything is good as anything else.
It's what's the job of work of this thing that we're doing now? So, exactly as you said, in a presentation, it's probably a warm room because they're there to see either you, specifically, or if it's kind of a multi-speaker event, then it's been brought together and promoted, and it's a warm open to you being there, and you're going to find a value.
It is a sales event. Nine out of ten seminars are brought together for the purpose of all of the closings. And there's then a profit share with the event organizer and you as the attendee. But the job of work of that event is to sell product at the end of it. And usually they're relatively high-ticket items. Because the speakers have access to the list of delegates already, it's not like the purpose of the webinar or the presentation is lead generation. The purpose is closing a sale. It's more of a short amount of time, condensed amount of time. It's a profit outfit number three job of educating and motivating people towards a decision. It's not a profit actually, it's a sous job of identifying the leads from all the rest of the population that's out there.
So just from that perspective alone, the job of working the fit for purpose nature of the content is very different.
The interactions with people at the event or online, even if it's an online presentation, it's a webinar. The interactions with people is much more towards leading them to buying something at the end. So the language all the way through, quite often you'll see webinars that talk about the close. In fact, if you look at a webinar structure course how you should present it, they'll often say, "Do your warm entry to the offer at the end somewhere near the beginning." So kind of build that anticipation or the expectation is, "This is what's coming at the end." And if you leave that in a book, particularly if the book is then designed for lead generation, it's going to a cold audience, where you don't have a relationship. Having that salesy nature for your product, and trying to get the close in the pages of the book is way, way, way, way less efficient.
And we spent some time at the beginning of the discourse talking about, okay, let's assume you've got a presentation that's fit for purpose, and it could be turned into a book. It's just way more work, so don't do it. Actually, if your presentation is coming from the context of a close, of trying to get a sale at the end of it, then that's absolutely not fit for purpose, and it's then all of the other reasons that we just mentioned why you shouldn't do it. It's not the best idea, because that's invariably not the traffic that the audience that you're talking to in the pages of the book. No relationship. Particularly, I mean, we've seen it on some Amazon reviews of some of the books, where people will say, "This is very salesy." Particularly if you're selling the book at a price. I mean, the minimum list price for an Amazon book is about $5.20 though, right?
Stuart: If you compare that to, and this is a conversation that we had as well, which we probably should touch on in a future episode, is people saying, "Should I charge for my book?" Well, if the book's not the product, the call to action is really the product. You're never going to make money from or you're never going to make any significant money from book sales themselves. So, why charge for it at all?
A slight different conversation about whether it should be on Amazon at all, versus whether it shouldn't be on Amazon. A different context there. But if it is, understand that whatever your book price is, it's going up against the millions of other books in there, which are written for education of and for entertainment purposes where the book is the product, where tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of effort and time have gone into creating that as the product. Yet, still the price of a book is a few dollars on Amazon, because there's no money or there's limited money making books. There's a lot of money in using books to start a conversation with people you later turn into customers. And all of that comes back to the fit for purpose nature of what you're putting in the pages.
Betsey: Yeah. That's good stuff there.
Betsey: There's some good advice there.
Stuart: I'm conscious that we're coming upon just gone past the half hour. So, we're on the east coast as we're recording. There's a storm that's moving in, both up in Philadelphia here and down in Florida where is. Which, I know, kind of beat the power cuts on the recording.
Betsey: Well, that's right. Right.
Stuart: But the one thing I did want to go on to talk about was using, just briefly, using the thing that you have created in the funnel afterwards. So, people are quite attached to these presentations. They don't want to see that it's wasted effort. They want to reuse it where possible. Reusing it in the pages isn't the right idea, but reusing it in the funnel is the right idea.
So, again, we've got several podcasts. We've gone deeper on this particular subject. But just to recap briefly, there are kind of two main ways that I see people using them in the most beneficial way.
The first one is as amplifying information to the book that's been created. So, if the outline is very similar. So let's assume that this isn't a salesy webinar. It's more educational. It's very similar to the content of the book, because it's the same subject. So, using it as an amplifier is a great way in that initial follow-up sequence. So we often talk about having that initial follow-up once people opt in of a series of emails that kind of amplifies and tries to engage people in conversation.
So, following up a day or two after people request it by saying, "Here's access to a private event that we did where I got a chance to talk in more depth about the subjects in the book." The outline's very similar because it's .the distilled, important, most beneficial outline process. Individual subjects. But obviously when I talk from stage, I got the opportunity to kind of elaborate a little bit more, and go in depth. So you can hear some of the nuance of the important points, being this presentation. And then, sending a link.
That, as an amplifier to the book, is a great way. It's just more touchpoints. It's more relevant touchpoints to reach out to people. And then, follow up that message with a spear-type email, the short personal, expecting a reply of "Hey, that's a number of people, after hearing the webinar, had a particular question about such and such. I'd love to share some more of that particular subject with you in detail. Let me know when's a good time, and we can jump on a call." Or asking people if the webinar is talking about a specific framework. So we talk about the realtors quite a lot. And one of the common spear-type emails there is, "Are you looking for a house to live in, or a house to invest in?"
On the books side of the business, the spear questions we've got are often, "Have you picked a title yet?", or, "What line of business are you in?" Those emails that are expecting a response within the context that they've just listened to the webinar. Again, it's another opportunity to ask those short personal questions, and engage people in conversation.
So that's the first way. Use it as an amplifier. So that is if it's very similar. But you're just giving people another way to consume similar information.
If it is more salesy. So that example that we just talked about, where it is a salesy webinar, the framework broadly is the same, but the actual content, you don't want to use exactly because it's too soon in the process. There is the opportunity to use that then later in the funnel. Probably not quite as soon as it would be if it was an amplifying podcast. You'd probably want to build a little bit of rapport with people, and give people a little bit more before you then kind of bash them with the sales one. But it's definitely something that you can lead people towards, as that traffic gets warmer. So, potentially, there it's the downloaded copy of the book. You ask them the spear question, what type of business are they in? You follow up with a PDF, or another piece of audio that kind of amplifies one of the points, particularly. Hey, that's one of the things that people struggle with a lot is picking the title, but we know that once people have picked the title, then that's often the kind of kick up the ass to get going. "Here's a link to a webinar Q&A that we did specifically about picking titles."
So, give, give, give, give, in terms of information. And then, point people towards the webinar that closes. So, we don't have one of those webinars particularly. We don't use it in that way. But that, if we were to have that, that would be something that we would add towards the end of the initial sequence. So, try to orchestrate that journey for the hottest potential customers, those are ready to go. Amplifying the message a little bit, trying to gauge people with the spear questions.
But at the end of that, if people haven't converted towards the end, then following up or dropping into a more long-term sequence, that webinar. Or even using it as a super signature. So, the super signature's going to be seen by people who are warmer. These are people who are regularly receiving your emails. It's not on the opting emails, it's for the kind of broadcast emails that go out year after year after year. Then, having that webinar as an option there.
And I find out it may be that is something like the titles workshop for us. It's not a sales webinar, but there is definitely a kind of call to action at the end of, "You should get started, and the information in there is pretty much ready to get started now. What's stopping you?" And that is in our super signature. So, maybe that is a good probably. It's not an exact example but, yeah. The super signature is maybe the way to go for that type of information.
Betsey: No, I think that I mean, first of all, it's always there. In every email that goes out. You know, it's just there. It's, you don't even know what it's working. And I think that's like one of the things I think about super signature. And I'm not great. I'll be honest. If somebody reads my emails, I've been thinking about my super signature for a while, and I need to work on it.
But when those things are just there, and like I see certain people's emails, and their super signatures all the time. And finally something will click. And, you know, it could be Joe Shmo, and he's been emailing me for two years. And all of a sudden, I'm clicking on his super signature. You know, it's been there this whole time. And it just sort of, one day, finally you know, it pops. You know, and it just does its job.
Stuart: It's definitely that I'm sure people have heard me mention the one about selling book in the past, Michael Gleason's book, where it's absolutely about the check moves. You can't decide when someone's going to buy. That's entirely up to them. All you can do is continue to present a buying opportunity, and when they're ready, then they'll execute. And that being ready might be just they need more education, they need more time. It's something in their life has changed. But always presenting that opportunity is the way to go.
And this is a great way of doing that. I know Lisa Sassaritch has written a couple of books with us, and a couple of books independently. But some of the early ones that they had, where they did have that sales presentation, that webinar, that was part of their existing sales funnel, they used the book to lead people into that existing sales funnel.
So again, similarly. it wasn't that they jumped straight to the sales presentation. They knew they had the sales presentation in the funnel. They were just using the book as a primer for the funnel. And that funnel had a couple of steps in it that led to the presentation.
So, again, it was a known structured thing where the customers were getting the leads that were called were getting warmed up, and then presented with the opportunity to join the call. And the book then was just another opportunity to put people into the beginning of that process. Not that they had a presentation that they wanted to reuse in the book, and just kind of leave something that existed without thinking of the context.
Betsey: There we go.
Stuart: Fantastic. Okay.
Betsey: It seems like a good place to stop.
Stuart: Yeah. I think so. As I mentioned, we've got several podcasts about some of these individual elements in a little bit more detail. So just dive back through the archive there at 90minutebooks.com/podcast
All of the shows are up there, and there's lots of examples of the specifics. And, also, don't miss the Jonathan Schultheiss calls of last week.
So, this is Episode 79. That one would be Episode 78. And then, so obviously there's a search box on the site as well, so just have a dive in, and pick up some of the other subjects.
We talked about a few things. One of them was the book blueprint scorecard. So that's our framework that we use to create books. If you're listening to this, and thinking about doing one yourself, or you think you'd like joining us, and working with us, but want to get a heads-up on what the framework is like, then I definitely recommend go into bookblueprintscore.com and complete in your own book blueprint scorecard for some insights into what your beginner's title and call to action, and the other six elements of the framework.
So, that's it, bookblueprintscore.com
And, as always, I think the only other two suggestions are if you've got anything that you want us to cover in the show, just shoot us an email to firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com and make some suggestions, and we can follow up.
And, as you're listening to this, as always, the best way of getting started is just to follow the guest-starred links on the site, and in the next bank holiday, you could have your book out there, and engage in those leads, and leading people, eventually, to your webinar.
Betsey: There you go. Yeah. That's awesome.
Betsey: I think this is a good show. It's been a good show, and I think for anybody who's thinking about it, there's reasons not to, and then there's reasons or things you can do to share that valuable contact, so.
Stuart: Yeah, exactly.
Betsey: I'm excited.
Stuart: Make the best of what's been done.
Stuart: Cool. Okay, that's it. Well, thanks for your time. Have fun in the rain later on today. And we will catch you in the next one.
Betsey: Very good. Take care.
Stuart: Thanks. Bye.